Definitely a big reason. A lot of people just like simpler games and that’s what classic is. Retail is anything but that.
Yes there’s a few simple brain dead specs in the game. Fury, DH, BM, etc. New players can find mild success with those spamming their pve rotations and throwing instant cc on the healer.
Most specs, especially casters and healers require a lot more thought and game knowledge to do well.
Think there’s a large difference between now and BFA, which I agree was the worst pvp xpac ever. I was just comparing the game and how it’s similar to MoP in a lot of ways. Good and bad.
Don’t ever compare the two. The game design that drove MoP overloaded players with tools. Skill was the main limiting factor, not class choice. Despite approaching a similar amount of total abilities, this couldn’t be further from the truth in DF. Many specs feel extremely limited in capability, particularly self sustain. Other felt differences include DF’s brain-off damage dealing and kiting vs gapclosing imbalance.
Those that called for MoP “bloat” to be reduced were genuinely bad players. MoP already dealt with the truly pointless buttons on launch. All that was left was useful. DF’s button bloat on the other hand is real. Stuff like multiple “press on CD” damaging abilities that have no major interactions with your spec. Abilities that accomplish the same thing as an ability you already have with minor differences.
The effect of MoP’s design and “bloat”? ~50% of endgame players actively participated in PvP.
The easiest fighting game characters have about 4x as many inputs and most aren’t as simple as tapping 1 button. If you’re serious about the game pick up an MMO mouse for 30 dollars and you’d have well over a hundred possible binds. A steal compared to a good arcade stick or hitbox which costs hundreds. Besides keybinds, what about the skill ceiling? In a shooter, aim and spread control alone makes WoW’s skill ceiling look like a children’s game.
Fun draws people in but depth keeps them here. WoW has been lacking both for a while now.
Not comparable. You don’t have to track everything you have to track in wow in a fighting game. They’re typically one on one games where the inputs are the entire game. WoW has 6 players on the screen all doing different stuff requiring counter play and constant target swapping.
These wow players are not normal gamers, they are hardcore players, even the regular pvp folks they call average, are hardcore when compared to the gaming industry as a whole. They pour endless hours and dedication into just one game.
They play wow every day, for over ten plus years, to them the standard 40 keybinds and 22 addons is easy, they can program a weak aura in about 5 seconds flat and even teach you about it lol.
As wow joins the ranks of everquest, runescape, star wars galaxies, and LOTR online, they still will not understand… If the game is NOT appealing to a younger audience to bring in new gamers, its a dead game. And a new gamer on average is not into the headache just to play wow on the basic level, thats a fact.
Also one HUGE thing about pvp, is that it excludes the major portion of players.
Lets be real, this game is all about Dragon monster slaying in dungeons and raids, pvp is a small mini game.
TO PvP you need totally different gear, stats, play style and mindset… Cant do much about the last part but the gear, thats a big deal… If PvE players could que into pvp with their raid gear, that might open the gates for more participation.
At this point what does pvp half to lose, already at rock bottom haha!
It sounds like you’re trying to do too much. You don’t have to track every ability used by your teammates and opponents, only about 5 of their buttons matter to you. As a DPS your main priority is doing as much damage as possible, not micromanaging the entire arena.
Compared to damn near every other MMO yes WoW in general is too hard. Its why PvP participation is at an all time low. The barrier for entry is crazy now with ability bloat and the pacing being so fast that people are tracking apm now.
there’s too much CC in the game in general
consider that there used to be a time where only a few classes had access to stuns. now almost all specs have stuns. fine, ok, everyone gets a stun. but then they started adding AOE stuns.
i don’t understand why shammies, warriors, DHs need both an ST and AOE stun. add incapacitates, roots, fears etc on top of that, and of course there are too many buttons
Games like DAoC that are older than WoW have about 10 to 15 keybinds and they all mostly feel impactful. And the PvP over there is better even with the outdated graphics and interface. I think the key is crowd control. In WoW you have endless micro CC. In DAoC the CC lasts much longer. In WoW the immunity to CC wears off quickly so you can get micro CC’d again rather quickly. In DAoC the immunity lasts a lot longer because the CC lasts longer. So it’s mostly a one shot deal in DAoC when you screw up your CC. It’s also why larger group fights are more fun… assuming one side doesn’t massively outnumber the other. If you play with a close knit group of friends and know what you are doing, your smaller group can take out much larger groups. Good luck doing that in WoW.
But WoW pvp can be fun when there are fewer than 10 people on each side.
Daoc is entirely “large scale” in terms of pvp. It is afforded the luxury, as most mmos that focus on spectacle large scale pvp, of not having to deal with the same kind of scrutiny In regards to balance and elegant design for small scale controlled environment pvp where all players involved share an equal burden of performance, instead of manning a siege engine and saying your pvping.
Small group pvp rolling around wiping larger counts is an illusion of skill. It’s coordinated players on comms merking uncoordinated non grouped zerg surfers and being able to because of how power distribution is designed per character (ie with only large scale pvp in mind from the onset).
Pvp in the two games are absolutely not comparable.
Well, I just got done with a session of DAoC, and quite frankly the large scale combat in WoW just can’t compare. And the only reasons I can think of are longer CC , longer immunity to CC, and classes not being jack of all trades that can easily CC, damage, and self heal.
WoW pvp would need a complete revamp from the ground up to actually be fun in large groups. But like I said before, WoW pvp can be fun in small group combat as long as there aren’t 3+ healers around.
WoW pvp started to go downlhill the moment all the warriors whined how much they were being kited by mages. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT. It was a more group oriented design early on. You weren’t supposed to have almost everything for every circumstance. Nowadays, warriors can break every type of CC.
That’s just one example of many. Sorry for picking on warriors, but it was the most obvious. I’m not saying nerf warriors LOL.
