Absolutely not.
The cave being moved south would have little to no impact on win rates. Horde are not winning because we have a 30 second head start. Alliance would lose in the field of strife and be pushed back just the same as at SHGY.
I am, however, perfectly fine with moving the cave, it will take away another excuse from the alliance.
funny u say this, many times we wipe horde at shgy, and again at fos we wipe them till ibgy, but once we are there we cant hold because horde can reinforce to fast, so we dont have enough time to drink/eat.
You know what else change would be nice.
If I ignored certain players that afk/bot or corpse afk. I don’t get group with them ever again.
It’s not just the head start, I think we’d see alliance capture IB GY and hold it more effectively, basically both teams would be able to develop offense in more games.
Most likely we’d probably even see something like the strategy that horde used to defeat some premades early on with 25-30 on defense and 10-15 on offense with something of a race between both sides.
At least games like that would be way more interesting than what’s going on now.
Last night I did a wind down AV after a long day of warsongs expecting to get the standard 30 min Horde win. Instead the Alliance held their ground and continued to wipe us down the battlefield till they got to Drek and won the game.
This is how most AVs functioned back in Vanilla, whatever team was dominantly winning the PvP pushed the other team to their base till they won. If you aren’t going for some cheese meta strat where you don’t engage the other team, you can always just wipe em and control the map that way.
If history repeats, you are so going to have to eat those words in later xpac remasters. Blizz moved the Horde starting cave further and further back in small increments and Horde began losing more and more. It got to the point where smart Horde players blacklisted AV because of the ‘guaranteed’ win rates for Alliance.
That is fine. Judging by the arguments I’ve seen here I think you’re probably right about the imbalance. But:
a) Blizz might do nothing at all;
b) even if they do move the H cave and do nothing else, it STILL seems like the “big initial engagement in the middle” meta is poor for A because if H lose they get to fall back to the superior IB choke. Expecting Blizz to change that is…optimistic.
So it seems like your comments indicate a possible new meta of “just defend the hell out of SHGY”. I mean if you think you can save Bal, or whatever, try, but SHGY is the make or break.
If H is vastly superior head to head, then they will just roflstomp A right next to their own GY and that’ll be that, 5940-0. If H is even or moderately superior, though, then they shouldn’t be able to take it with A defending it all out. Game would potentially then devolve into a huge Zergfest at the GY with both teams sending out raiding parties for lesser objectives. A can win that or at least get more bonus honor than they otherwise would.
Best of all, this can easily be explained to a pug. DEFEND SHGY!!1!1! isn’t too hard…
It is a huge advantage… You know how important it is to spawn close to a gy to defend it? If you had to spawn at fwgy you would be almost twice as far away. Not only that, but like i said, it allows you to apply pressure to IBGY after Alliance try to move on. Alliance has no ability to do that in the north.
you do know how tower honor works right smh
Yeah but the problem is that just defending the hell out of SHGY doesn’t really net you anything. You have to move up at some point or else the game will just go on forever. Maybe you can get the druids out but if the game is more or less even or Alliance only has a slight advantage, they probably won’t have sufficient control of mid to prevent the druids from being kited away and killed and then you’re right back to turtling.
I don’t really expect Blizzard to fix this, but I would prefer that people understand that the map really is contributing to Horde’s win rates and that it’s not just because Alliance sucks.
The reason alliance won more in Vanilla was because the Horde hadn’t develop this strategy as a group yet. Back then they mostly skipped SH in order to have games that didn’t last forever.
They didn’t really start doing this style of game until sometime in TBC and Alliance began to boycott it at that point. At that point it was same map we have today.
Given two equal groups it will take the Alliance a very long time to defeat the scorched earth method. The few times I remember us breaking it in the past was normally due to either the Horde afking out after 4+ hours or deciding to try and break the stalemate and making a mistake.
There was one 1.12 AV I remember that lasted well over 6 hours. I played for 2 hours before needing to go get dinner. I came back and ended up back in the same one and played for another 3-4 hours before we won. I had 600hks before I left the first time and another 750 or on the second stint. In that one the Alliance just decided we weren’t going to give in. We communicated, laughed, and complained but did it.
That simply isn’t going to happen today as it just does nothing for your honor. This is why you don’t see Alliance try after that initial fight. Any of us that played before understand it’s going to take hours unless the Horde just give up. Most don’t have that kind of time in 2020.
horde are incredibly sweaty due to long queues yes
however the map is a joke and that cannot be denied
the cave for horde is in an absolutely busted location
no other change needs to be made
Love the sub level 20 “Alliance” players saying they play both Horde and Alliance and see nothing wrong with the map. Could you post on something a little higher up maybe and show your videos of you winning AV as Alliance. I would love to see how you did it.
Ultimately, the numbers prove it. 95%+ winrate shows a systematic problem that isn’t the only fault of people. Yes Alliance has less hardcore pvpers, yes there is low moral in winning AV as Alliance, and yes there are probably more botters/afkers in AV as Alliance. But this alone is not enough for the winrates we are getting meaning that something else is at fault. The main factor in my opinion being terrain and spawn advantage. If any Horde/“Alliance” thinks they have a legitimate reason for the winrates that is not systematic I would love to hear them.
agree with your post.
Then it should probably be flipped. Move the horde NPCs north and the alliance NPCs south and swap spawn locations. There, problem solved.
FWGY isn’t any farther away than the cave once you factor in having to run south to get outside to mount.
Horde decided to actually use their map advantage.
After 5 minutes cave position is irrelevant.
Unless you’re talking about how easy it is to take FWGY because we don’t rez there. Massive disadvantage btw. And it wasn’t that way in vanilla I don’t think…
This is inaccurate and spawning at FW is preferable to the cave.
Okay, let’s petition Blizzard together to have it moved. Since it’s better for both of us.