AV is superior to WSG / AB

Even though WSG and AB are objectively more fun for me, I feel that overall AV is a superior gaming experience for the “Every gamer”.

The reason for that situation is very simple; the every gamer wants to solo Q, have their play time be rewarded (honor points / loot / reputation you name it) as a result of their play and contribution to the match they’re in. Honor points are like DKP in raids, and if you think about it like that, it makes perfect sense on why AV is so popular even if many of us would rather do WSG or AB, and make no mistake here I am not saying AV is a bad map, it can be lots of fun if the PVP component of the map is utilized.

I feel like there could be an improvement made to AB and WSG to make them feel more rewarding to the “every gamer” in the format of how points are distributed.

Points could be gained by doing things that are component of the map itself be that Flag Returns, kills while at bases, defending a base, assaulting bases, killing enemy flag carriers, defending bases who’s flag was assaulted, back capping in AV, etc.

If these activities were more rewarding you would see a lot more of it, and as a result the game play would improve overall as a component of the map objectives being useful to the ends of the “Every gamer”.

I am no fool, and I know that no matter how well designed a system is there will always be those who abuse and exploit it, but putting more a focus on making the system fun and rewarding while bolstering map objective play should be the primary focus.

They could even go so far as to greatly reduce the points gained from honor kills while in Battlegrounds and put the focus like 95% on the objectives side of it.

Flip side of this could also be to bolster HK points objectives of certain situations like say you hold a Tower or base and are defending it in AV or AB, honor kills while you hold the flag could be greatly improved so that defending these is strongly rewarded but if you do not hold the base then HK’s are almost worthless. Hell I would make HK’s that take place within a certain range of Grave yards absolutely pointless other than to CC a cap.

There is a lot that could be done to make AB and WSG equally valuable in terms of choice so that Q’n them for the “Every gamer” is just as valuable as presently Q’n AV.


An alternative would simply be to make adjustments to AV.

How is it fair that someone that is afk gets the same amount of honor as people actively trying to play the objectives (with the exception of honorable kills). I see those people all the time afk in base, even in the starting cave.

Need a mega nerf to AV honor or reallocate honor gains to those playing the game rather than reward every bot afk. Would help restore a bit of balance.

Also, it’s absolutely crazy how honor gains in AV on a non AV-weekend still exceed those of WSG and AB on their respective weekends??


Its not fair and it sucks, but think about this from the perspective of not you or I or any other PVP enthusiast. What are they there for? Loot is normally the answer, but see this is not our objective.

Our objective is not the honor per hour, or the loot but to play the games. How do we get more players in the games so we have fast endless Q’s? By getting loot goblins interested in PVP loot, and if we are lucky addicted to PVP like we are.

IMO the punishment for being an AFK leech in BG’s should be the loss of 2 full ranks AND the loss of all your weeks points AND a ban for 2 weeks from any form of instanced PVE or PVP.

First cap 1x bonus, 2nd cap 2x bonus, 3rd cap 3x bonus + win bonus.

Return flag + bonus.

Triple the + bonus for win. +1 the bonus for loss (which would be current honor for the win as it is now)

  • rep x 1 x 2 x 3 attached to all markers above including return flags.

Probably a good start. If anything you’ll get honor for losing that is congruent to a win currently, and greatly increasing rep gain. Wsg rep items are very good and rep is realy aids even if you spam win all day every day. Plus if your team returns flags, you get bonus and rep for that as well. Making longer games still relevant


Yup this is the kinda stuff we should be promoting, making the game play matter, to make it matter a lot.

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This is a better post. Approaching the issue realistically, understanding the motivation of players, and seeing if there is a way to reproduce that in other bg’s.



Yup, its important to understand the motivations of the player base as a whole, rather than the motivations of the minority of us.

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I feel like maybe there’s a word for this :blush:

Apparently solo queue rated bgs are coming to Retail soon.

That’s an interesting idea. Probably fun for them. Honestly though I think preset rated teams are more interesting, since BGs are so makeup dependent

Yeah. I’m not sure what to think. Solo que rated 3s seem to be pretty popular, and bring an interesting change to arenas with a 6 match rotation. I guess we’ll see how it goes for BGs.

Makes you wonder what happens when one 10 man gets 6 warrior and the other team gets 3 mages and a Druid (in classic)

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AV is definitely the best because there are so many different things you can do and still play an important role. The other ones, while they can be very fun and intense, are much more pigeonholed.

I prefer the idea of bring up to rather than bring down to, especially after having WSG games of 40 mins for 3k honour. Later in the thread I think Lazarak makes a really fun-orientated improvement.

We 100% know people will try to abuse and exploit ‘buffs’ to avoid playing the game, but the core pull should be keeping pvp engagement for casuals. I think of this warr and rogue in my guild, they jump after 8pm, we do a dungeon, chat for a bit, they go to bed. In the current system, AV is the only BG they can spend that 2-3 hours playing and make any sort of meaningful progress, even over time. Take them 6 months to get exalted? Maybe. But they’re not getting exalted in WSG like ever.

Especially on era servers where rep gear is good but nowhere near game breaking anymore.

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My prob is the habitual afkers that get rewarded global honor from NPCs, Tower caps etc. Quite a few with 500k honor with only 50hks and it’s same people for weeks on end. Hopefully all the reporting catches up with them.

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This is why a full two ranks demotion per penalty and a week ban from instance content is a must.

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I couldn’t agree more - there’s so many of those people too… Rankers allergic to PVP but it works out,

The original implementation of AV in ‘05 combined with how people played it back then was a good BG and usually very fun too.

Unfortunately the PVE objectives are too easily out-scaled with gear. Combined with a series of nerfs/removals by Blizzard and a mindset of zerg rushing to the end that started in late ‘06, it was basically ruined.

What I would like to see is an original implementation of AV and a buff that makes it basically impossible to ignore the major objectives. This would make the games significantly longer but would hopefully limit the AFK problem and encourage PVP to happen in a BG.

It is a pretty “Warcraft” BG, so I would really prefer it to be one of the better ones rather than just an effortless honor piñata.

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