Yes they are as the horde summon spot is much more definsible from IBGY than the alliance summon spot is from SHGY. In a perfectly balanced teamwise game horde will always be able to summon ice guy.
The alliance summoning location is significantly worse yes. But again, if Horde is turtling IBGY, it isnât some given that we are going to be able to defend the Shamans. There is still a massive hill we have to go around to get there and the Alliance can reach them pretty easily from SHGY + SFGY which you absolutely have if Horde is turtling IBGY. Please donât play dumb. It is annoying.
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Is the alliance summoning spot worse than the horde summoning spot?
He said it was. Now Iâm confused.
Doesnât matter in the scenario you are outlining. Keep trying though champ. Your long list of trash responses are always entertaining.
At some point, you just have to let him talk. Yes it is in a worse position. I donât recall saying Horde donât have an easier time with the disruption. I recall saying that if Horde are turtling IBGY that Alliance can easily disrupt the summons.
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As with everything in this discussion, yes it is easier to disrupt the druids in the same scenario. That has literally no bearing on my point.
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Do you know how distractions work in war?
You send a small force to a location and make it seem like a large force, this in turn draws a large force from the enemy and letâs you attack a now weakened defence is another location with your main force.
The rogues shouldnât be fighting horde that response to their distractions tactic, they should stay stealthers and recap when they leave unless they know they will win the fight (2 rogues vs one horde=easy win 99% of the time) force horde to send 5+ people back to try and stop the 2 rogues from constantly soft capping.
Your team now has a numbers advantage to take other objectives because you invested 2 people, the horde invested 5+
If they try to only send 1-2 kill them, force the horde to send more to prevent those soft caps from becoming hard caps.
Gorilla warfare, distraction tactics, itâs an effective way to play AV, even more so for the alliance because human racial is the counter to this strategy, horde donât have that. This strategy is better for the alliance to do than it is for horde, especially because even non stealth classes can stealth on the alliance if they are night elves.
Alliance has the stealth detection and the stealth ambush advantage through racials and they are not using it to any degree in most AV games.
Iâm sorry you canât see the actual value this tactic has because your to busy blaming everything on the map.
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Umm⌠yes it entirely matters. If horde can turtle at IBGY and have an easier summons area that makes scorched earth a very viable strat with an easy win for horde.
Make up your mind on what you mean by scorched earth because if Horde are turtling, we already lost a couple of objectives. Apparently everything is scorched earth to you whether or not it is, in fact, scorched earth.
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The IBGY turtle strategy is similar to TBC which is not scorched earth. The only difference in this scenario is that Horde is not first killing Balinda to ensure we win via reinforcements.
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However, being able to own both SFGY and SHGY as staging grounds to wave attack the Shamans makes it incredibly likely that Alliance disrupt the summoning. I am not sure how this is hard to track. Overall, this game looks like a multi hour snooze fest.
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Hereâs the thing, make up your mind, youâve already agreed the map is imbalanced. Why are you arguing over details of how a better alliance group can beat horde, a condition that has always been known?
Thatâs right, retreat behind some alternate discussion point now that your original point was blown up. Classic Ziryus.
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And I am arguing because I honestly think that if Blizzard changes the cave respawn that it isnât going to change a freaking thing in Classic AV because Alliance arenât going to suddenly start queuing again en masse. They might get a little excited due to change in scenery, but the underlying issue with player apathy and the need for Alliance to have a more elaborate strategy arenât going to change by removing the respawn. I.E., it wonât suddenly be a 50/50 win ratio simply because Blizzard makes this change.
Is the map imbalanced or no?
Already answered that with several different variations of yes along with specifics on how. Most notably the starting respawn locations favor horde and Druid summoning location is all sorts of trash.
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What does it take to get alliance back in the BG? If it is a 50/50 win ratio, we are likely out of luck.
Okay then, well removing the cave rez would definitely be a good start.
Take that up with someone arguing against it. Thatâs not me nor is it relevant to the previous discussion.
The cave rez is the topic of this thread.
And if that was the only topic that was being discussed in this thread, your point would be relevant.
You seem to be new here. If the horde play any kind of defense alliance will need a southern GY to push with. So we are simplifying things to make it easier to understand. With no southern GY the easiest GY to take and hold is IBGY where the math shows that horde can reinforce it 3x faster than the alliance once it is softcapped. Due to cave rezzing up to 20 at a time as opposed to GYs which rez 10. And that the cave is less than half the distance to the IBGY flag than the nearest alliance GY. So ignoring the terrain advantage the horde have with the choke and the tower locations you still have a near unsurmountable advantage that requires a raid boss to push theough one that is summoned right in front of that contested GY and is insanely easy to intupt and bug out.
Maybe next time you come in here trying to sound all smart do a bit of reading first before you look like a fool.
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Oh i get it, you are talking about alliance apathy, but failing to link that to the map imbalance.
Nope. I have also stated repeatedly in this thread that map imbalance plays a part in Alliance player apathy. You only work in black and white, so it is no mystery why you think there could only be one possible explanation for Alliance player apathy rather than there being multiple factors combining to make it happen.
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Edit: Seriously, you can stop anytime. Your points have become less and less coherent as this discussion has gone on.
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You should have stopped as soon as you admitted there was a map imbalance.