If you cannot have a civilized discussion, perhaps you should put us on ignore.
I think everyone should. Great idea.
2 Likes
âI know itâs not the map, I just want free wins for alliance even when half my team is AFKâ
Ya and you wonder why Iâm arguing against your viewsâŚ
Easy to say from your 99% win rate point of view, isnât it?
1 Like
Horde are not playing pve rep farm simulator though⌠And you have actively admitted to not even trying to use your map advantages.
Map advantages which donât exist. Weird how you claim alliance have map advantages, but horde dont. Just goes to show your uneducated bias.
6 Likes
Horde have defenders advantages, so do alliance, alliance are not using their defenders advantages at all, as has been shown by alliance claiming the bridge is worthless and does nothing. Because they donât use it properly.
Youâre talking about the bridge at our base right? Lemme just defend that for absolutely no reason at all. All that bridge is good for is turtling, if youâre turtling, youâve lost. This argument is so stupid its insane.
6 Likes
20 alliance can hold 40 horde off with that bridge, this letâs alliance use that bridge to send half their team on offense.
This is assuming that the 20 are at least a decent mix of mages, warlocks, and a hunter or two (then some healers), and then a handful of warriors that are speced into their aoe fear.
Having 5 mages should be enough mages, 2-3 warlocks, and 1-2 hunters.
Mages should be speced into the aoe slow on blizzard, but if not hunters can drop their aoe slow trap.
Warriors should be using fear bombs on anyone getting close to crossing the bridge and using execute on those that do cross as they should be low HP at that point.
Hunters should have flares on the bridge as well as their trap on the bridge (if no mage speced I to the slow) as well as after the bridge to let warriors stay on target to execute.
Warlocks should be aoeing and ready to backup fear for warriors.
Rogues, druids on defense should be rezing at the cave stealthing out and killing horde healers or just keeping them in combat so they canât get Mana.
Have a few healers at the aid station side of the bridge as well.
The rest of the team should be on offensive.
The bridge does nothing if you donât know how to use it. But itâs an extremely strong defending advantage to the point you can send half your team south and still hold it.
Iâm sorry your teammates and yourself seem to be unable to understand how to use a choke point, how to use strategy, and how to be a ram instead of a sheep.
Clearly itâs the map making you unable to do anything but roll over for the hordeâŚ
I didnât even bother reading past the first sentence. You, again, are giving random off the wall scenarioâs.
Iâll say it again, if youâre defending the bridge, YOUâVE ALREADY LOST. There is absolutely ZERO chance of getting ANYONE south to do ANYTHING meaningful other than kill a few LTâs.
âwhy doesnât alliance just do this insteadâ BECAUSE IT DOESNâT WORK. I beg you to create an alliance toon, level it to 51, and play AV. Just watch how literally nothing works in our favor.
9 Likes
Imagine thinking 40 horde rezzing at spgy somehow cannot overcome 20 alliance on a bridge rezing at aid station. The bridge somehow overcomes the additional power of 20 characters. Amazing.
Also just wanted to say that I got exalted today and got my healing flower offhand. Now to never step foot into AV again.
2 Likes
Donât forget alliance have ram team 7 helping us.
1 Like
This is hilarious, because as an opening premise, it is wrong across the board.
This so grossly oversimplifies that it might as well be an outright lie, or indication that you have no idea what youâre talking about.
- This statement needs a lot of clarity. Is SPGY hard-capped Alliance? Hard-capped Horde? Soft-capped? If Alliance are actively holding SPGY, then the bridge isnât in play since it is behind Alliance and does not effect the Horde. If the Horde are actively holding it, then fighting on the bridge and dying sends you to the Alliance cave, behind the Horde, giving up the bridge choke on your first death. If SPGY is soft-capped, Horde deaths go back to SHGY, whereas Alliance deaths still go to the Alliance cave.
- Since Alliance must position on the Alliance side of the bridge, but not on the bridge, to avoid going to the cave instead of the aid station, the choke isnât actually continuous but rather only at the exit of the bridge. The only other help are Alliance archers if theyâre still alive, but are otherwise irrelevant since the only stop point is at the very end of the bridge.
- If only half of the Alliance are staying to defend, Horde will push through and take the base. Both sides are resurrecting in equal numbers, but there are twice as many Horde attacking than defending. This simply wonât hold for long unless the Horde are monumentally stupid and undergeared since they have a massive numbers advantage.
MEANWHILE
- Where are these Alliance going? If theyâre running straight down the cliff from aid station, past the harpies, around the lake, and up the hill they run into the SHGY and Icewing Bunker choke. There is no other path south, and since this is an assaulting force of 20, no you donât get to just say âomg use invis potions!! Stealth!!â The only way youâre getting past this is as a 20-man ball and hope literally all 40 of the Horde are busy assaulting. That means two resurrection cycles of waiting at a minimum (so 1 min) of just waiting to group up and go while 40 Horde slam into the base.
- Look at the map and where this assaulting force of Alliance have gone. Theyâre at SHGY, they soft capped it, and now they have the other two-thirds of the map to go with no graveyards to support them. Any deaths at this point will send that Alliance back to the cave, in the upper northeast corner of the map, directly behind the assaulting wad of 40 horde. But the intrepid 20 Alliance are pressing on, all epic mounts, all with carrots on sticks, all with spurs and riding gloves, and theyâre making it to IBGY. Just to get to IBGY as a cohesive crew of 20 has taken them over 5min. Not to soft-cap IBGY, not to hard-cap anything at all, just GET to IBGY.
- Horde break through finally at the Alliance base, the magnificent 20 trying to turn FWGY whine loudly that not enough came south to attack, and Vann is pulled and killed before Alliance have made it inside the Horde base, let alone turned relief hut, capped any turrets, or even thought about pulling Drek (who has all his WM up).
Your grand suggestion is to magically hold off the entire Horde team at a choke point that works against the Alliance due to the cave spawn priority, with only HALF the Alliance team, while the remaining half run across the ENTIRE MAP WITH ZERO GRAVEYARDS TO SETUP A FOOTHOLD SOMEWHERE IN 100% HORDE TERRITORY TO MAYBE START ASSAULTING DREK IN THE NEXT 12-15 MIN. Your grand strategy also has to hope that:
- Horde never once think to even open their maps and look at things being taken in the south
- Horde never leave the assault to backcap or defend
- Horde are so dumb they donât bother trying to summon the Icelord
- Horde are so bad they canât crush 20 defenders with 40 assaulters
- Horde are so bad they canât destroy Vann who has 1-2 WM at MOST
- Horde are so slow that they actually give Alliance 15-20min of free time to try to work something out
- Assaulting Alliance are all fantastically geared and balanced (Tanks, Healers, DPS) to actually effectuate a meaningful assault on Drek
- Assaulting Alliance have all the necessary Engineering and Alchemy consumables to stretch out every possible advantage possible
This.
Is.
Beyond.
Stupid.
Your entire hypothetical is predicated on Alliance outmaneuvering and outcoordinating Horde who are severely deficient in both gear and common sense⌠but this only happens somehow once Horde successfully hem the Alliance into their own base after soft-capping or taking SPGY.
RAM TEAM 7 STRIKES AGAIN
10 Likes
You literally quoted Redhead:
and he was very specific about 40 v 20. Where are these magical additional 40 horde coming from that are at SH? These magically additional 40 horde seem to be placed in any situation to fit your current narrative.
Still wondering when a thread will be created on the subject of SF deaths tossing alliance back to the aid station. Oh, I forgot, there are 40 horde preventing that thread from being made.
If your argument that the map is balanced is reliant on the alliance being able to hold their final defensive GY in order to start some sort of offense, youâve pretty much lost this debate in a landslide.
No unmirrored map should spot one team a virtually decisive lead before the other one can develop some kind of counterattack. You canât say the map is balanced when one team canât work on an offense until theyâre down to their last graveyard on the fieldâŚ
Yes, there are structural advantages in Dun Baldar to the allianceâs defense; stronger than the horde has in FW village.
But they donât come into play until the horde⌠is on the doorstep of Dun Baldar (duh).
Thatâs the problem. For the AV map to work, when you have evenly matched teams, both teams need to be able to develop an offensive starting position on the other factionâs territory. For horde, that is clearly SH GY. Once horde softcaps SH GY, it becomes fairly difficult for alliance to take it back unless it is left undefended. If horde has 20 at SH GY, they can hold off an alliance defense for the full 5 minutes.
Thereâs no equivalent GY in the south half of the map. Once alliance takes any GY in the south half of the map, horde can take back any in the 5 minute window with a decisive defensive push by a half the horde team. 20 horde can take back any GY in the south from any size alliance offense.
13 Likes
Not even worth arguing with this person. Iâve explained the same thing multiple times and they make the same arguments without change. Theyâre simply trolling.
3 Likes
CLOMP CLOMP CLOMP CLOMP
It blows my mind how people defend our bridge as a meaningful advantage. Maybe in TBC where you can win playing defense, but In classic you STILL need to go south to kill Drek, canât pull Drek to the bridge.
By the time we are at our âadvantageâ we have already lost, and typically anyone who can get south does so to get ANYTHING out of the BG rather than turtle behind a bridge that has the same outcome of us losing anyway.
8 Likes
I remember several BC AVs ending at Frostwolf. Horde turtled effectively and won on the reinforcement count.
It was an amazing AV. But also not Vanilla by any stretch.
Yup!
/squee
Yeah I think Redheaded Ram Rider is worthy of the forever mute at this point, as no one is actually as dense as he is. There are 40yr politicians with less stubborn trolling tendencies to stick to a failed position.
2 Likes