Friendly reminder that basically everyone agrees the map has issues that should be addressed but what isn’t agreed on is the map being the only factor effecting that win rate or even the actual amount the map does effect that win rate.
The map needs to be fixed. But it’s not nearly as impactful of a factor as 1/4 of the alliance team giving up on winning 5 minutes into the game and going into rep farm simulator mode which directly hurts their teams win conditions.
Don’t know what math you’re referring to but, for example, if 40 players are ranking with full pvp gear, top level vs 40 people who just want rep it’s totally possible.
I’m playing battlegrounds right now Tuesday night to get 15 hks on my former ranks 11 to 13 and there is a lot of rank 10 +. Even more than I can remember when I was ranking 13. In some games I’m the only “sergeant” (below rank 6).
Most of my alts I’m playing now have deranked to rank 3-5 because I’m just doing one bg per week on each to help bracket expansion and have a little bit of fun. But I’m still the same player. Ranks are not everything. You can be a good player with a low rank and bad with a high rank. High ranks are also usually ephemerals.
Skills and ranks are not the same thing. While usually high ranked people are skilled or at least know their class it is not automatic.
I agree with that but in AV you have to look back. History is important here. The present meta is important too. AV queues were long horde side and even longer now which is a powerful incentive for horde to win. Alliance premades destroyed AV pugs who were destitute at the time. Alliance premades (and rankers) all left AV at the same time traumatizing alliance side who ended with tons of leechers, rep farmers and negative people who think they can’t win. Alliance just never recovered and map imbalances/horde queues time are preventing that.
Besides, there is also map imbalances in favor of alliance.
You dont need a small group of skilled players to sit in SHB when no one comes to back cap it. You dont need elite players executing at a high level when you can cap SPGY and all of DB with 3 stealth and no opposition. You dont need to focus on who has what rank when your strat is to turtle GYs and loot corpses.
All you need is teamwork and an understanding of whats at stake if you fail to do things like defend, back cap, grab and hold forward GYs, etc.
All the math you need to know is that in any given AV there are way more horde interested in winning the bg than there are alliance interested in winning the bg.
Well you also need to understand that if the teams are even in terms of skill commitmment etc… the horde map advantage if they choose to use it gives them a massive edge.
And that’s exactly how we ended up where we are now. All the issues you see on alliance side are the result of months of horde playing scorched earth and alliance getting little out of long boring games. This is exactly how things played out in BC when horde started playing this strat, except blizzard actually cared and did something about it then.
All the math you need to know is that there was a time when alliance were trying just as hard as horde and on AV weekends when alliance does try just as hard as horde and their win rate still doesn’t get anywhere close to what it is in WSG/AB. Sorry but there is clearly a massive map issue.
What about if alliances try hard, it just takes so much time to win a game it’s not even worth to do it since alliances have instant queue ? That’s what I would call simple math : alliance just do more hph per hour by losing AV fast than winning long AV games. And certainly more rep that’s for sure. It seems to me the dominant and manifest massive issue.
Plus the fact horde wants to win cause they wait 2 hours. Plus the fact alliance rankers killed their bg by dodging queues and leaving alliance pugs to lose. Plus the fact that alliance rankers all left at the same time. And yeah sure some map imbalances but far from massive imo. And don’t forget map imbalances in favor of alliance too.
Zyrius considers the “mAp iSsUe” to be the butterfly effect cause. While ignoring the very real impact that queue times have on the game
Yes if alliance RNG’s into a much better team than horde they’ll win.
But sorry when the teams are relatively even horde will win almost all the time when they play scorched earth. That’s what we saw early on in AV. It’s easy to look at AV now and say well alliance just aren’t trying.
But when alliance were trying and when they do try on AV weekend the win rates do not normalize to what they do in WSG/AB. So we know it’s not just alliance needing to try harder because that won’t over come map imbalances.
And yeah you continue to not understand how terrain actually works on a map.
Once again using “sCoRcHeD eArTh” as code for something other than “playing the game as intended”. Both sides were trying to win in “early” AV. Your revisionist garbage is yet again acknowledged.
Ah, circling right back again to this already defeated bad faith garbage.
Right so we’re back to your mental gymnastics for why alliance magically suck in AV.
Dunno man, there are two different alliance players (not including scotpollard from a while back) who have both said the same thing a number of different times. Yeah, the map plays into it, but when you can’t even get enough people to recall to back cap against 3 stealthies…
Queue times and Honor per Hour, leading to a vast difference in motivation and commitment.
But dude, they have the OP posting under a horde avatar and agreeing with them!
And guess what else leads to vastly different motivation? Playing on a busted map where the other side is abusing that. Shocking I know that some people don’t enjoy playing at a massive disadvantage.
What’s sad is you’ve admitted the map has issues that should be fixed but persist in trying to blame the players out of some weird ego trip for horde.
There it is again:
Playing the game as intended = “abuse”
Many of us are capable of acknowledging more than 1 cause of the rates being seen. You however lack this fundamental ability, but rather blame it solely on the version of the BG that virtually you alone fought for.
The issue is this often ends with alliance stuck north of SHGY which is extremely undesirable.
ok ill give you “imbalanced map” for the sake of conversation, but what exactly are the other side “abusing”?
Playing to strengths is apparently a no-no.
This is what he calls “sCoRcHeD eArTh” in an attempt to demonize it.
You say magic like there’s something missing or there’s some mystery there that cant be explained.
Horde will send 10 people back from their SPGY push to recap IBT or defend Galv.
The alliance will let IWB burn right behind them even though theyre all spawning at SHGY and the whole team is there.
There’s no need for disbelief. The alliance suck at AV.
The explanation is quite simple, the magic part comes from people trying claim the map isn’t the root issue then performing massive mental gymnastics to try to explain why.
no, you just refuse to acknowledge there is a non participation issue at hand.
the alliance can win it and still do. it just cant be won fast.