The best thing you can do is never reply to redheadchild posts and simply report it for trolling so he can go on another forum vacation.
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Dieing on the aid station side of the bridge sends you to aid station. Alliance have their own cave advantage that is actually stronger than hordes but they never use it because they have given up by the time it comes into play.
And Iâm not saying there isnât map issues, but they are being blown out of proportion by the map criers. They would have you believe that loss rate is only caused by the map. Ignoring every other factor that contributes to it and blaming the map entirely. Ignoring the 5-10 leachers/afk alliance have every game on average. Ignoring the alliance players that give up after the first clash. Ignoring the alliance basically refusing to use any of their own map advantages by choice of giving up before they come into effect. Ignoring alliance refusing to learn the different Rez lines for aid station vs their cave and use them properly (SFGY definitely should not be working how it does right now). Ignoring the que time effects on effective farming of reputation/honor and how it differs per faction and how it effects the level of gear, skill, or even level of characters themselves that the players have on average per team. Ignoring every factor other than the map because itâs clearly only the map causing that loss rateâŚ
I donât agree on the magnitude the map is effecting that loss rate because Iâm looking at a forest of trees, every tree is a factor. Your standing in front of one tree with your face pressed into it and screaming how if this one tree wasnât there everything would be perfect. Ignoring every other tree there.
Also, I may post from a lvl 10 worgen, but itâs been an active forum goer. The person I addressed was using his alt to express an opinion he had already expressed with his main character in this account. A quick loot at post history from him shows this. I only mentioned it because he is using a dishonest method of trying to make it appear there are more people complaining about the map than there actually are by using multiple avatars to post in the same threads as if he is different people.
You can say Iâm trolling and call for reports for me all you want. It doesnât make it true. Having a different opinion than you is not trolling. And my opinion is based on facts, historical evidence, and logical reasoning. It looks at sociological factors, player behavior, difference in conditions per faction, even the map itself which does need to be fixed, but itâs not the only factor.
You look and see a tree and blame it for all your problems. I look toward the same tree, but I see the forest.
It is all about the ease of implementation. Perfect world yes they move the cave. At this point, there is no shot at perfect world, so the idea is to consider things that would have a similar effect but require less actual coding and testing to deliver. To some extent it is speculation on which would be easier to code, but I donât believe taking the map from TBC and putting it into 1.12 while stripping out the reinforcement mechanics, honor mechanics, etc. would be a small job. I do think that adding a delayed start horde side would be a minor amount of additional code. I do believe that altering the respawn order so start locations are last would be a minor amount of additional code. I do believe that altering the respawn behavior of Alliance deaths midfield would be a minor amount of additional code.
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TL;DR version. It isnât about whether something is justifiable at this point. It is about solutions that might have a snowballâs chance in hell of being implemented because they are minor changes with fairly substantial impacts.
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Oh I agree and Iâd be happy to see any real changes to balance but I just think asking for a delayed start is unrealistic and if moving the cave is an issue due to all of the things you listed, then wouldnât the same apply to changing the cave spawn since it was also implemented in the same time period?
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Changing the cave spawn order is a lot more transparent map wise.
Itâs a big game play change but not a very visible map change.
I donât believe it would be the same level of effort. They arenât moving an entire map along with spawn locations and whatnot. I donât know what their code looks like, but if I had written it the code would have been its own minor stand alone code that gets called repeatedly when a person dies. I would be pretty surprised if it didnât look like that in all honesty. So changing it should mean altering a specific bit of code rather than having to dig through every aspect of the actual map moving. I suspect all 3 of the changes fall into the âstand alone codeâ category, but I obviously donât know. I wasnât coding 15 years ago so I donât know what code standards were at that time or within Blizzard.
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Honestly, weâre all arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Classic is dead, Blizzard is not going to do more than the bare minimum bug fixes. And AV is obviously the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel for those.
The best thing anyone can do is not queue AV at all. All the discussion here is really pointless if Blizzard doesnât care.
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Blizzard only cares about money.
The blizzard that actually cared about itâs players died a long time ago.
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Classic was/is a take it or leave it proposition. Yeah sure, theyâve made some changes but not everyoneâs pet peeve is gonna make it onto the to do list.
This is more of a player issue than a map issue - if youre Blizz you look at it and say why bother. Any change you make is going to make next to no difference and you would only be doing it to improve the mental well being of alliance role players who think they know better but cant prove it.
Think about the amount of testing that would need to be doneâŚthereâs no way, totally not worth the effort - its not a legit enough of a problem - 15 years ago the alliance dominated AV and the horde cried about the map. One can understand Blizzâs complete disinterest on this topic.
Even in vanilla alliance didnât win at the rate horde wins now.
The change asked for is a very minor change, wouldnât really need any testing.
As they have already experience the testing in TBC, as the solution is removing the cave res as an option until all other graveyards are lost. This has already been done.
Would be a few lines of code.
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Youâre right. They did way better later on. Alliance flat out dominated AV and IoC in retail for years to the tune of something like 95% of games even with all the changes made to the AV.
So much for map theory.
Iâm not so sure your numbers are accurate.
I mean if alliance arenât using a strat they could be using that beats the IBGY cave rez by all means present it.
Shhhh, using historical evidence makes them think your trolling.
This argument is silly.
Using a game that was released 15 years prior and trying to say itâs the same.
Evey aspect of this game changed from vanilla.
Gearing
Dps rotations
Specs
Speed of boss kills
Literally every meta has changed from Vanilla.
This argument is pretty weak.
We are replaying wow from 15 years ago, not reliving the past, thatâs where the flaw in your argument is.
Do you think if JFK got to relive that day he would drive down that road?
Do you think Troy would if given the chance to relive the past opened their door for that Horse??
Reliving a a moment in time is much different than reliving the outcome of that time.
If you were to compare player aspects of wow from vanilla and this version, Iâm sure ALL of your historical data has changed, every aspect of this version has evolved to something much different than vanillas outcome in every aspect.
Buy mAh historical dataâŚ
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Your right, todayâs players are much more entitled and will blame anything they can find to avoid looking at their own faults.
The game and map are the same though. Itâs the players that have changed. And in vanilla 1.12 AV alliance won more often that horde. In private servers using the 1.12 AV alliance won more than horde.
Hmmm.
Throughout the course of AVs existence it has been thoroughly dominated by one faction or the other. Yeah, the alliance thoroughly dominated AV/IoC post Wrath in retail - overwhelmingly so. Super high win rates. Well over 90%.
The reason for this was simple - no self respecting horde player did AV (or IoC), it was blacklisted by the majority of horde. It was full of bots and afkers whereas the alliance specific queueâd for it even with long queues because it was an easy way to grind out an honor set without ever tasting defeat.
Somehow weâre supposed to be shocked by it happening in classic when thats all this bg has produced since its inception. Get with the times.
Yes and according to historical records we should all still be stuck in Black wing layer.
And rag should have taken 5 months to kill.
Get with the times
I have no data on private servers but just a quick Google search showed that things were much different there.
For instance Lights hope and Nost all implemented changes to balance it.
Im not sure where you get your data.
Digging more into it Nost apparently also had the older version of AV, so they had 10 hour long AV games, lights hope also had Koraks Revenge.
Took me all of 10 minutes to debunk all your arguments so far, Iâm starting to see why you get reported so much for trolling.
But mAh historical records argument- Debunked
But mAh private server AV- Debunked
Got my data from early elysium and early lights hope before they made changes. Those changes they made buffed the hordes chance of winning overall.
Hmmm. Itâs almost like alliance were winning to much that the game masters buffed horde for 1.12 AV.
You didnât debunk anything as you gave no evidence or data to counter what I said.
Feel free to think your right though.
And what changes were those?
About the dozen or so different topics I read all state the opposite of what youâre suggesting.
Any quick Google search will give you the same information I read.
Iâm really starting to get a better idea of why you keep getting reported but you do sound defeated already so I think I did my job.