If you want to hang your hat on well the good alliance just don’t queue for AV you then have to explain why, it couldn’t possibly be that they understand there’s little reason to queue into a map that gives the other side a massive advantage?
400+ posts later, and I still haven’t seen a post that dismantles the argument that the cave rez enables horde side to effectively prevent any hard cap of IB GY by throwing waves of defenders at it from the cave respawn. And as a corollary, no such defense of SH GY exists for alliance, which is why horde can develop a first offensive GY whereas alliance cannot.
This is the single largest imbalance in the map, and it’s the one that leads the entire alliance offense to failure.
In war, in any sort of physical conflict, this kind of imbalance effectively makes it so that no amount of effort can overcome it.
There is no alliance offensive strategy that can effectively create a path south except for games where the teams are so imbalanced that alliance is winning every battle by steep margins (at least 2 horde deaths per alliance death).
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The only reasonably successful strat is for the alliance team to simply be much much better than the horde team, as in premade vs pug levels better. Which is of course no longer possible thanks to horde whining.
As you say this, I lost another game. All they did was just take IBGY the old fashioned way
So i guess it really is just a player issue
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Why not? There were premades in Vanilla and since you think winning doesn’t involve some unfair advantage, what do you care?
In this case clearly a Horde player issue.
That’s beause you are playing the Alliance side as if it was Horde side. The meta strategy is very different for both sides. The horde advantage is at IBGY, and the Alliance comparable advantage is at SP.
Thats why Horde lose when the alliance is actualy on the offense (ala zerg)
Im sure its a massive coincidence that alliance rankers quit AV en masse when they couldnt premade in there anymore. The same guys responsible for losing that privilege in the first place btw. So why do horde have to take the blame again? Even if it was the map thats not the hordes fault either. I think you guys just wanna RP on the forums really.
Map theory is great for being a contrarian on a forum but the actual games themselves don’t support the claims being made here. The supposed free win advantages dont even come into play in most games because the alliance turtle the horde at SHB (so youre hypocrites too) with half their team collecting hks on the backs of the 15-20 alliance fighting until they got enough turn ins for all the rep. Then they let us mop up so they can get out of there ASAP and do it all over again in under a minute. You can rep faster by losing so thats the game plan. Then talk about horde advantages when the single best one going for the horde is how the alliance approach AV.
You guys are free to delude yourselves as hard and as long as you like.
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Privilege??
No it’s not a massive coincidence that once the only reliable way for alliance to over come the horde map advantage was removed serious pvpers stopped queuing for it.
You can try to spin it however you want but the reality is alliance pugs do fine in WSG and AB against horde pugs, so it’s not that alliance just don’t know how to play. Leaving the map itself as the issue.
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Exactly. Alliance started queue syncing in order to level the playing field. Once the Horde stopped zergging it became necessary. B didn’t lead to A and I’m pretty tired of people trying to make that claim.
Hold up. Im gonna stop you right there.
The reason why AB and WSG Alliance do much better is because that’s where the Alliance actually try. You cant AFK there for free rep or honor and you actually have to play. This weeds out all the rejects and PVErs.
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Except this is false, I’ve been in plenty of AV games where alliance are trying and out playing the horde by a large margin. The map imbalances make it so just being a good bit better for alliance isn’t even enough. The alliance have to vastly better to the point of premade vs pug better.
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Thats only from your subjective and biased perspective.
The average Horde in AV is in T2. The average alliance player in AV is in T1/Prebis sometimes even not even 60 yet.
Which has nothing to do with what happens when you do get that rare alliance team that is just as geared and just as leveled and is even playing better than the horde.
And still losing many times because of the map.
…that rarely happens. If the Alliance are equal to horde, they’ll be equal to Horde.
Here’s how you know your team is as good as the horde team. The first battle at SH bunker. Assuming equal numbers, If you are losing ground, then your team is worse as you’re slowly losing the fight. If you’re gaining ground, then yiou’re winning the fight.
There are very few times where Horde actually have to move back despite their IBGY being further away. The Cave doesnt even come into play in this scenario sicne they’d be rezzing from IBGY
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The alliance were exploiting drek for 6 minute wins, you really dont have a leg to stand on if you wanna have a real talk about map advantages. All while creating dozens of no win situations for your pugs which necessitated the intervention from Blizz that drove alliance honor farmers to WSG and AB instead. Yall got no one to blame but yourselves.
Leave me out of your guilt trip.
I know “the alliance just sucks at AV” is the kind of reality that can intrude on all kinds of fantasies but it is what it is. Stop taking it personally, stuff like this can happen. If you try in earnest as an individual player its not your fault. Instant queues and easy rep epics + apathy arent a good combination especially when you go in expecting to lose.
But you go ahead and blame the map. Whatever you need to tell yourself to sell your story.
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But it doesn’t even matter if it rarely happens at this point. What’s relevant is what happens when alliance does get that good team.
400 posts later and you are still ignoring the answer that hard capping IBGY is not necessary.
And in those cases, the Alliance wins. It was literally my last AV game. They actually had evenly geared and ranked players