Changing the cave rez priority to last is even less invasive than changing the map and also something already done later.
I mean, I agree with that change too lol. I was responding to actually moving the cave. 
Iâm not sure what the point of this thread is. This is where it was in Vanilla. Thatâs where itâll be in Classic. But good newsâŚitâll get moved when TBC servers come online.
The point of the thread is an effort to revive AV so it gets more play on non-AV weekend days. Right now it is close to a ghost town. Things like changing respawns, altering which graveyard you get sent to when you die, moving the cave / opening the cave later horde side, etc all could have the effect of reviving interest in AV.
The this is how it was in vanilla argument went out the window for AV when blizzard started making changes to it.
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I certainly feel that making the cave priority to last, as well as delaying the horde gate opening is easier than changing the actual location of the cave. Even if the cave was moved in a later expansion thereâs likely to be a lot of other changes between the two expansions that would have to be vetted before you could use one version of AV in another expansion.
Iâm sure thereâs a lot more behind AV than just saying âOh, the cave is here.â Thereâs scripting and npcs and tons of other mechanics.
But thatâs all up to Blizzard, really. They know the implementation and have the information necessary to improve the game. Iâm fine with either option.
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Everyone wants a free ride to easy honor. Donât kid yourself that this is something unique to players who have a red faction banner as opposed to a blue faction banner.
You arent going to make people love it by dumbing it down for them.
There is no justifiable reason for the cave to be where it is. Itâs a bad map design that was corrected later. I donât think theyâll ever do either one, delay or move the cave, but I donât understand asking for a change that has never taken place on any competitive bg map in WoW rather than just addressing the reason the delay is needed. I think Blizzard has options on how to deal with this map, but has actively chosen not to use them.
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I like how you always seem to leave out the cave being moved was done after the win conditions of the map got changed.
Hmmm.
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This is actually wrong.
The win condition of the map was never changed. A NEW condition was added.
You can still kill the leader and automatically win.
Do you know what adding a new condition for victory is? Itâs a change.
They changed how you could win. Are you really going to try and argue changing the win condition for kill leader, to kill leader or run the resources to 0 isnât a change to the win conditions of the mapâŚ
No, you said the win conditions of that map changed.
They did not get changed, as the ONLY way to currently win is killing the boss.
That stays in TBC, a new condition was added without that changing anything, since it was never there before it couldnât change.
The resource win condition was added to combat turtles. Majority of games werenât won that way, they were still won by killing the leaders.
The revamp to the map is coincidentally the same issues alliance are asking to change now.
Change
make (someone or something) different; alter or modify.
The win conditions were modified to include a new way to win.
Do you not know what a change is?
Letâs look at an example from TBC hunter
Arcane shot at the end of TBC was changed from dealing damage, to dealing damage and a dispell. Are you going to argue that wasnât a change to the ability as wellâŚ
A change does not have to remove the old effect or even replace it, even just adding to it is a change.
If you donât believe this is a change letâs add 1000% unresistable damage to hunters aimed shot in classic. It didnât take the physical damage away, so itâs clearly not a change and would be just fine to add to the game!
âŚ
We all know youâre trying to imply that the changes may or may not of only taken place because of the added win condition to the map.
Your narrative is to try and disprove anyone saying the map changed because of the issue currently wrong with the map.
After reading thru these posts itâs clear your narrative is is to downplay the advantage horde have in AV. You were suggesting the changes in TBC were added because they happen to add a new win condition, but not alter the old one?
We know the cave was moved because of the addition of reinforcement mechanics.
It caused horde to kill Bal the. Be defensive and not even try to push for your base.
With reinforcement mechanics it gave hordes cave location much more benifit for itâs location than before reinforcement mechanics were added and gave horde a massive advantage. If you didnât play AV in TBC at this time you donât understand how impactful reinforcement mechanics was to how the game was played.
I was alliance at that time, (went horde late TBC because RL friends switched with faction changes) and I can tell you reinforcement mechanics changed AV in a major way. It changed the value of defending, of pushing objectives, of killing the mini bosses, and so much more.
Reinforcement mechanics is the reason the cave got moved. History shows this.
Yes youâre right. The cave was infact moved because of the added condition.
However the cave rez, which was changed BEFORE the cave was is the main reason horde donât lose on AV now.
Isnât it a huge coincidence itâs the first change in this revamp, but your argument only highlights the cave being moved??
Your whole agenda is to downplay the tbc map and just claim all the changes were solely because of the revamp, when I doubt it is.
Once again, the tbc AV was rarely won by just killing players, games were still won mostly by killing the leaders.
Infact as a horde player than we would actually flame horde in chat if they took SFGY back then because thatâs how the turtles even started.
Answer these simple questions
Was the cave moved before or after the the win conditions changed from the addition of reinforcement mechanics?
Before or after?
Was the Rez at caves mechanic changed before reinforcement mechanics were in AV or after?
Before reinforcement mechanics were added to AV both alliance and horde had to deal with a cave Rez advantage from the enemy team to win. The reason the map seems so unbalanced is because the alliance rarely use their cave Rez advantage when it comes into play because they have already given up by then.
History shows alliance with the higher winrate with this map in actual vanilla. Private servers that used this map showed alliance with the higher winrate.
The biggest thing holding alliance back in AV right now isnât the map. Yes there are issues that need to be fixed (SFGY deaths going to aid station is not right) but the map is not nearly as unbalanced as the map criers would have you believe. Also, why are you posting on your horde alts? Donât want to use your alliance main for this conversation? Or are you just trying to make it appear more horde agree with you than they actually do?
the level 10 worgen hunter calls somebody out for not posting on his main!!!
The map is the single biggest factor to the state of AV right now. You can say 99.9% of the alliance team doesnât bother trying over and over again, but again this all stems back to the map issues and in particular the res locations for horde and alliance.
The cave is too strong at IB GY and should not be used, the res point should be FW GY, the alliance getting sent to their base when dying at SF GY is a glaring mistake. Defending the bridge and being sent to the alliance cave is another terrible decision when zoning GY spawns.
But it is really none of these itâs the players right? and you wonder why your posts get flagged.
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Just report the clown. He has literally 2000 idiotic posts defending imbalances that benefit his horde main. Never contributes anything to a discussion and just blames alliance players while ignoring obvious facts.
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