At first, I understood why horde would be upset over premades. Not so much that they lost to them even less than alliance pugs lose to horde pugs, but that it was only possible for one faction to do. The more I play this terrible map, the less empathy I feel toward that. All of the things on this map that is only possible for one faction and Blizzard doesn’t care. I mean, alliance win AV about as often as horde got premades in before Blizzard broke them. Ivus, war riders rarely ever happen alliance side, but it’s a normal occurrence for horde.
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Not at all true
It was unfair one side could premade and the other could not.
It was unfair to the alliance to start the game with half (or less before the fix) the players than the horde
It was unfair to horde to wait about an hour (at the time) to join an AV and then get booted out because there were no longer enough alliance because the premade dodged the que.
It was unfair to alliance to end up with a mostly premade and get mass reported to kick them out to add the premades players to the game.
Notice it wasn’t just the horde being hurt by alliance AV premades. The changes we’re not made to help the horde. They were made because alliance premades were exploiting the system and proof of this is blizzard intervened and broke the report feature to no longer kick off players who received mass reports. Blizzard had to change the game start conditions of AV. Blizzard had to announce they would ban people abusing the report feature. And as punishment for the group of players that made them have to do these things they made them unable to abuse the que to premade AV.
AV premades were broken because of scummy player behavior, not because of horde favoritism that doesn’t even exist.
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Horde had the exact same queuing system as alliance.
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That’s largely because the thread was started in bad faith. This thread is about 25% virtue signaling, 25% alliance grumbling, and 50% outright vitriol.
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And yet because of the number of people queing per side they were able to mostly premade. And if you got into one of their premades as a pug alliance don’t say a word! Otherwise they mass report you and try to get their premade friends in.
Not to mention alliance were using an add-on that blizzard intentionally broke because it exploited flaws in the que system to vastly improve their chance to premade.
Look at it from todays point of view.
Horde win 99% of the games, even if 40 Alliance are in the game or 10.
Whats it matter if Alliance premade? The only disadvantage for horde is they have a chance to lose.
Also i was never booted out of a game when the premades left 15 people in them, it was filled before the timer ran out.
They only needed to change the bug where games started with fewer people, and they did, the change to premades werent needed, infact they hurt AV more than helped, look at it now.
Its not fun to join AV knowing youre going to win without a challenge, and a huge portion of that is the map and how it influenced the Alliance’s attitude on trying in AV.
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This greatly boils down to horde players wanting a free ride to easy honor. Alliance choices are pre-made or get screwed over by the av map or premades in the other two bgs. Horde choose get screwed by premades or go into av, abuse the map and stomp alliance without having to be on discord spamming hundreds in consumes to gain honor.
Can’t really blame them for not wanting to lose that option but they could be a bit less obvious about it. The bone headed things posted on here are quite comical. Them pretends trying to take ibgy through the cave spawns isn’t 10 times harder than anything they encounter in av is very laughable. They also like to pretend the whole 30 second head start isn’t a thing and that they have free reign n spawn shamans and lok. I know it’s usually a bunch of low iq people living on these forums but surely not everyone pretending the map is fine can possibly be dumb enough to really believe that.
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What’s this? A Horde bringing up a fair AV?
Started in “bad faith?” You’re accusing Hawne of lying? What a jerk.
The map is garbage. Anyone who isn’t in a coma knows it’s BS.
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So funny, man…
horde players are so against the idea of moving the cave back…
i wonder why 
I just started playing again since phase 1.5 and I cannot believe that I haven’t seen a single alliance AV win yet, but now I understand why.
You don’t even need to change the location. Just delay the opening of the horde gate and fix the GY rez order. Make the cave the rez of last resort, only available when you don’t hold any other GY.
Those simple fixes will pretty much do the same as changing the cave location. It’ll also fix alliance getting bounced to the cave instead of the First Aid station when SPGY is capped.
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It wasn’t a “chance at a loss.” It was almost as bad for Horde back then as it is for Alliance right now. The apathy was real. Getting Horde to do anything but kill Lts + Balinda and wait for a loss was extremely difficult.
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I get that everyone wants to pretend that this was somehow remotely “fair” or “intended” when neither is true. Seriously, if you don’t know what you are talking about, don’t talk about it. It is pretty obvious you weren’t playing Horde during the premade era otherwise this wouldn’t be your response.
And this is an overly simplistic choice. There are other options. Like requesting a fair map repeatedly. The entire idea that Blizzard only listens when Horde complains is a complete joke. There has been as much outrage about the state of AV post premade changes as there was prior to premade changes. The difference is that in order to create a full premade it required exploiting the queuing system which in and of itself isn’t necessarily an issue. The issue is that only one side could do so. The real solution should have been to allow both sides to 40 man premade in AV.
Here’s what I propose:
Move the Horde cave back by the Horde base. Move the Alliance cave behind IWB. Send Horde back to RH if they die at SP. Make a path directly up to IBGY from FOS. Close off the path from FOS to SHGY requiring the Horde to run by Bal like Alliance now run by Galv.
Keep the map like this for a year.
This is completely fair.
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And worthless proposals like this are why I don’t take you seriously Bodicca. It is counterproductive and clearly intended to be punitive rather than actually attempting to resolve the issue which is an unbalanced map.
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Blizzard could completely change the map to try to fix the problems but they won’t. If they were going to do that it would have been done 6 months ago.
They’re clearly content in letting horde have very long queues with nearly 100% win rate.
Oh who gaf what you take seriously? You’ve called me a liar and acted like a complete jerk for no reason. You’re not someone whose opinion I value.
That being said, the post was complete sarcasm. That’s painfully obvious. But you just can’t resist an opportunity to be snotty.
I don’t even know if it is content. I am guessing that they have limited devs available and those devs have been scrambling to get P4-6 ready with as few bugs as possible. That said, the idea that they couldn’t put in a couple of the more minor changes to try to balance it a little is ridiculous.
Yeah, and I believe what I said back then which is why I don’t take you seriously. I removed the language as a courtesy. Didn’t change my opinion at all.
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I do take most of the Alliance players on this thread seriously. I don’t take you or Ziryus seriously though. Jeezy is starting to get there too.
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Edit: As a direct result of this conversation, my opinion on several aspects of the BG has changed and I have been made aware of several bugs I wasn’t aware of (the SFGY rez situation on Alliance side might be the stupidest thing I have seen and I believe it has to be a bug).
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I’m a developer but not in the field of gaming. Now I don’t know their source code or situation but I can’t imagine it’d take more than a few hours of work to make the changes I suggested and test them.
The gate timing should be pretty straightforward. Instead of kicking off one timer for both gates you kick off two, one for each. There may be a few complications there but it doesn’t seem like it should be that difficult.
The GY rez shouldn’t be difficult either. Disable the cave GY, keep a count of the GY available to a team, and only enable the GY when the count is zero. I’m sure there are some edge cases there too but it’s probably not that complicated.
Yes, you have to have devs available but this should be fairly high priority since it basically makes AV unplayable. Two hour queues on one faction and nearly no wins on the other is extremely broken.
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Of course not. You’re unable to even entertain the notion that Horde let Alliance through to IBGY so they could quickly cap SHGY. And the reason you haven’t “changed your opinion” isn’t because of any facts or the like, but because you’re so arrogant and full of yourself you actually think if you don’t like it or want it to be true, it isn’t.
No logical reason behind your snotty behavior at all. Just you being a jerk because you FEEL like it.
And then you feel the need to make an uncalled for cocky reply to a bit of sarcasm.
You’re a bad person.