Your basing your findings on the rules of a mirrored map - AV is not a mirrored map. It was never intended to be played as such. We just got the wrong version of the map - the scaled down one.
Lose for another 8 months.
See where your alliance attitude is then, im going to guess you give up.
These alliance players are people, just like you, when something is stacked so against you, most give up.
Horde are no different.
As far as you âearningâ those wins, any alliance player could reroll horde and all of a sudden be great at AV for some reason
I could do 20 games on this toon and lose them all and then go on my horde priest and do 20 games and win them all.
Wonder why?
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The problems weâre having now exist on earlier versions as well, they actually arenât addressed until later.
But then someone who doesnât even understand the basics of terrain and how objectives works wouldnât understand that.
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notice how he conveniently ignores the proof of the map imbalances as soon as it is posted againâŠ
so twice now when a list was created with clear concrete facts that PROVE the map is horribly imbalanced all the map deniers just ignore it, like they did last time.
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Nothing you typed matters because PvP decides the outcomes of who gets what and nothing else. Its a pvp bg, not mario cart.
On this version of the map the horde actually has the offensive or âearlyâ advantage while the alliance has the defensive or âlateâ advantage. Funny thing about those advantages though is you have to use them - one does and the other doesnt and it dont get anymore obvious unless you play both factions although thats not really necessary if youre an honest person.
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Then maybe you can go and respond to that list of horde advantage vs alliance advantages I just posted and explain why the horde have so many that are all stupidly strong while the alliance have basically none and the few they do are easily countered by doing such hard things as bringing 2 people to a bunker or summoning the ice lord behind a choke.
oh wait that would require you to admit you donât believe in facts which would out you as the troll you areâŠ
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Oh? Can alliance win on defense??
We got reinforcements I donât know about??
Is this TBC??
You couldnât be more wrong.
Next time youâre in a game as either side and alliance hold SHGY for 40+ minutes, just think about what if alliance cave was right NEXT to shgy like ibgy has.
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Neither team can win on defense alone, whats your point? You use your defense to not lose and then mount your counterattack. Yknow, like the horde do?
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Thatâs not like what the horde do.
At that time horde already have the whole map under their control.
Kind of a big difference donât you think?
But I guess itâs equal to you that horde get to defend while alliance have No graveyards but alliance get to defend when horde HAS THE WHOLE MAP ALREADY
You sir are clueless. You have no understanding of AV or PvP as a whole.
Zug Zug.
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If AV was being played correctly these games would easily be 2-3 hours long if not longer depending on the collective strength and fortitude of each team.
The prospect of playing a 2 hour plus game is just not in the cards for the alliance as a faction. People are there for rep, honor and welfare mounts, not hours long pvp battles - theyre not interested in that. The horde on the other hand tell you what theyre about when they wait 2 hours or more to get in. Time is not an issue.
And btw, a lot of horde just do AV for their pvp diet because they cant stomach 80% premades in the other bgs to go along with incessant just give up whining in tough pug games.
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If this game was playing according to vanilla these games would actually be 10 minutes.
Each side rushed back then.
Horde went to SHGY then killed Balinda. They went straight to Shgy if youâre alliance the would be on your left.
Alliance on the other hand went right and capped IBGY and went for Galv, the dodged the horde by staying right and running by SFGY.
If you were horde and you capped SFGY you for flamed because this started those 2 hour turtles and NO SIDE wanted that.
Those turtles happened maybe 1 time every 10 games. As is the current issue, horde taking SFGY leaves us no rez south. So the turtle happened because we would not have a graveyard and be force all the way at SPGY, not being able to push south again. Just like now.
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Learn to position?
You donât have to instantly give up SPGY. If you notice your losing it you fall back.
In a fight you have your front line melee, ranged damage and ranged healers. When you notice your front line melee have fallen you have time/tools to fall back. Example one mage blinks in and ice novas (he will die) this gives the rest of the alliance the chance to fall back across the bridge, with ranged damage and healers, ironically the best classes for defending the bridge by turning it into an aoe meat grinder.
Itâs not that the bridge is a bad choke point, itâs that your not using to any effectiveness because your giving up by the time horde are getting near it.
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Tbh of they fixed being able to shoot thru the mountains at SPGY it would be alot easier to defend.
Issue is spgy is hard to defend because horde can tab shoot people thru the mountains. So you get melee who run to the flag and fight there and then you have the casters behind the mountains not even visible killing you. While your killing their melee.
So again you ignore the fact that to get to that point against a serious defense at SP you probablly already have an ice lord helping the push and he is just gonna laugh at your aoe on the bridge, if a couple warriors dont just pop LiP and run through and fear and then horde are past the bridge aoe and now its an even fight with equal rez.
The game is over by the time horde have reached SPGY if alliance donât have a souther GY hard capped.
So you let them summon ice daddy uncontested? And thatâs map favoritism how?
There is counterplay to ice daddy getting summoned.
Also, if you want to bring LIP in, it stops PHYSICAL damage. If you ment free action potion that doesnât stop the damage nor does it stop the alliance melee from decking them, or mind control to jump off the bridge, fearâŠ
And they typically has the bat riders bombing us for 2k.
They donât realize they OWN the ENTIRE map at this point.
But ofc he wants us to win a defense battle with us fighting lok and bat riders with horde attacking.
Iâm flattered he thinks so highly of us.
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I can understand the frustration of having your team res on the opposite side, but thereâs also a reason they coded it that way (itâs not complete incompetence on their part).
As someone mentioned above, the map isnât mirrored for a reason, so you shouldnât be complaining that you donât have the mirrored aspect and/or trying to play towards that. As someone else pointed above, it is first and foremost a PVP Battleground. That means there is COUNTERPLAY to every play Horde make, offense and otherwise.
Did some of you res behind the Horde? Congrats. You now have them in what is classically known as a PINCER maneuver. I wonder where the Horde healers are likely to be. Iâll give you a hint. Theyâll be directly in front of the team who just ressed behind Horde.
Did your team get stopped on the Bridge? Good thing thereâs a giant valley and opening below to get around them. Did your team get stopped at the hill next to SHGY? Good thing thereâs a huge Lumberyard above that many, MANY Alliance premades used to use to slip more and more people past, even beyond flares. Also both teams can fire through hills. Did you know that pressing V allows you to see HP bars through terrain? Awesome! You can now tab CC and dmg onto HEALERS 1st, as all teams should be doing.
The point is you guys have to play towards the strengths of the Alliance side, just as Horde have to play towards the strength of their own. Whereas Horde suffers more at a faster rate if Alliance break through into their base, the Alliance suffer more if they allow Horde to mount an enormous defense that they donât try to actively FLANK. It can be done. Itâs been done on all versions of the map since Vanilla and 1.12, back when that patch was brand new. The current playerbase just doesnât want to do it as often, and itâs for the reasons many of us listed above.
Again, Iâm not saying that Horde doesnât have advantages in the current AV situation, but itâs absolutely NOT the Cave or map dictating that. Itâs 100% the mentality of each faction right now, which is further exacerbated by the min-maxing mentality that brought more avid âPvPersâ to Horde at the start.
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Except that coding gets fixed in TBC, I wonder why?
Having a pincer attack is kinda useless as we canât win with reinforcements yet.
Think of this as football.
The horde basically start at our 10 yard line every game (SPGY). They have to run 10 yards to score.
Meanwhile alliance start at their 10 yard line on defense (SPGY).
Wonder which team is always going to keep scoring?
This really isnât hard to figure out. By the time our cave comes into play horde own 90% of the map with all the summons to help them.
This has all been said tho, thereâs dozens of videos, dozens of players with data that supports this. Your âfeelsâ is irrelevant.
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Itâs not so much incompetence, more that like with a lot of things in vanilla, they just kind of tried things without knowing how theyâd actually work out. Especially now that people have figured things out. AV has a number of those issues.
The counter play to scorched earth is RNG into a team that is 2x better than the horde team. In a relatively even team situation there is no effective counter.
Keep in mind the issues alliance are having right now were fixed in TBC when they started to become a problem then. Kind of like how AV premading was also fixed post vanilla when it became an issue.
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