What don’t you agree with?? Everything I posted aside from exact travel times is factual.
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The first cave/gy spawn fix you mentioned would just be abused.
The rest Im not really disagreeing with except that you make it sound entirely more dire than it actually is. There’s just too many assumptions on player performance, behavior or action and doesnt allow for varied game conditions to exist and change certain dynamics or variables which happens a lot through the course of a game.
Still, if we were playing in a vacuum you make a lot of good points.
These changes actually do happen in TBC when they redo AV.
So the changes really aren’t that far-fetched.
Patch 2.3 stops cave respawns.
Patch 2.4 moves the cave back.
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Well theres the alliance fix then.
Wait for TBC 
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Your forgetting how those changes were added heavily due to reinforcement mechanics. But you already know that.
Many of us have done this, there’s no discussion going on when people parrot the same line over and over again. We can either work together to come up with solutions or go in circles arguing why things happen.
And even when we come up with solutions Blizzard isn’t implementing them anyways so…
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I said when they redid AV…
We all understand youre a master at classic AV. We all get it.
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Which would be understandable if they were difficult changes, but holy crap. I have never seen their code and I guarantee I can code the respawn change in an hour. Probably less if they have the source code for TBC 2.4. That’s not me saying I am some godly coder either. But short of them having the most ridiculous spaghetti code known to man, there is no way this takes one of their devs familiar with that code long. Shoot, it would take them way longer to test it than it would to code it.
.
I have an idea. Someone from one of the pservers needs to copy their code into a text file and send it to blizzard.
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You neither need to be “game breaking” nor AV geniuses to beat an opponent that is legitimately lying down. What part are you not grasping, about the vast majority of your team mates not trying, if they are even looking at the client at all when in the BG. Even several of your team mates have pointed this out time and again, and you lot flat out ignore them, if you are not too busy shouting them down.
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What part are you not grasping that when the teams are even in AV horde will almost always win because of their map advantage?
It has nothing to do with one team lying down.
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Don’t you realize that this already happened and when the horde lost every single advantage they lost.
Had you actually played AV up until the reinforcement mechanic was introduced, you would know that horde was already losing the bulk of the matches. Only after reinforcements were put in, and before the cave move happened, did horde start winning more. Causing alliance to melt down, much like they are now, leading blizzard to cave to their boycott and make their desired “fixes”.
I suspect that blizzard is sick of alliance crying wolf, sick of them blatantly throwing games after their multiple exploitations were fixed, sick of seeing alliance players melting down like this despite the actual historical win rates during this identical patch in vanilla.
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Both factions have done their share of crying about AV. Horde spent the duration of vanilla crying about the alliance bridge, among other things. In fact, Wing Commander Mulverick even comments on it in a quest when they moved him to the Outlands.
Three years of blood, sweat and tears. Mostly tears… The amount of crying that a hardened soldier does when it comes down to all-out war is amazing! “They’re jumping into our tower with their horses!” “Why is their base so well defended?” “They’re taking our relief hut, I’m going A.W.O.L.!” Wimps… I took the first train out of “cry-town” the minute the Dark Portal opened. Now I’m a top gun for the Dragonmaw. If you want to be top orc, you’ll have to defeat me.
As we all know, this is not vanilla so what happened during vanilla is irrelevant to what is happening in classic AV. Horde could have played this map the same way they are in classic, but they did not. If they had, I suspect we would have seen changes made to the AV map sooner than we did.
Whether you, or the others who deny the map is the root cause will admit it, whatever you see from alliance in AV after months of fighting an uphill battle is a byproduct of a broken map. Fix the map and then if your argument that alliance roll over is the actual problem, we’ll find out.
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I have, and others have repeatedly told him that AV was NOT played this way in vanilla but he keeps ignoring it and trying to use Alliance winning as a valid argument.
Vanilla AV was a rush, alliance rushed to SF soft capped it and went to Galv.
Horde at the same time went on the other side to SHGY, soft capped it and killed Balinda.
There was really no PvP in this version of AV in Vanilla. It was just a rush to last boss.
For the 100th time.
Aside from that I have made the same points.
All that Alliance do in THIS AV is a product of the map imbalance, complaining or using how it’s currently played as apoint towards your argument is silly. If the map was fixed, we would not use this meta.
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I’m just here to laugh at the profoundly terrible job blizzard has done @ handling AV. Once a great developer, now just a trashcan conglomerate. sad.
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The “way” horde are playing the map in classic is literally playing the BG as it is intended to be played. The reason they are seeing success is because of the literal unwillingness of the other side (the bulk of them) to do the same.
Whatever is done to the map is not going to change the effect the queue times have on motivation, the lack of accountability of the cross server queue, and the much higher hph of the other 2 BGs.
This is true, alliance actually tried during vanilla.
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Right so the way the BG is meant to be played is for a horde 95%+ win rate. No bias there from a horde player…
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Most alliance avoided SF because it was considered to be better for the horde to have it. Then they wouldn’t rez south and turtle near IBGY.
The best outcome in AV would be to hold SHGY, take IBGY, and let the horde get SFGY. It didn’t always work that way but you never wanted to lose SH and pick up SF, that was a sure way to lose the race. If you did lose SH you wanted to exchange it for IBGY.
The main difference between Classic and Vanilla AV, at least before people rightfully gave up on AV, was that in Vanilla most games were a race. In Classic the horde realized they could effectively turtle against any alliance advance and stall out the game, which favors horde because of queue times.
Have we all at least agreed on how the AV graveyard resurrection system is a major issue? Or are we still arguing on choke points, turtles, apathy, and the harpy cave?
This map was designed to have land mines and multiple elite NPCs, making a zerg impossible, whether it was zerging SHGY or FWK, it couldn’t be done with the land mines and elites. So stop telling us horde are playing the map they way it was intended. It was intended that horde have a much harder time reaching SHGY than they do now. Everything meant to slow the zug zug is gone on this map.
If you honestly believe this meta would not have brought some pretty big changes to AV had horde played vanilla 1.12 the same way they play classic 1.12, you’re in deep denial. Blizzard might have the “preserving the spirit” excuse for ignoring this trash design in classic, but they couldn’t use that for vanilla.
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