Don’t change the goalpost now. The win condition is killing Vann or Drekk. Getting through the middle of the map is a requirement to meet that win condition. The map determines how we do that. The map, which is not mirrored, is most definitely a factor to meeting that win condition.
1 Like
One of the end bosses has to die. Thats the only thing that wins AV and nothing else. There’s no way for you to navigate around that one. There’s more than one way to get that job done but thats wholly dependent on what your opponent has to say about it. The language being utilized is player vs player combat in the form of 40 man teams and everything that entails.
The map, cave location, spawn timers or whatever else cant get in the way of you getting in the way of the other team. You could give them damn near the whole map and then just collectively decide to sit in your base and ward the other team off indefinitely. Or SPGY or SHGY because its not really the map making the call - nor does it win you the game - which is why people opt to just lose because while you can basically troll the crap out of the opposing offense but if that’s all you can do there’s little point to it once the honor runs out.
I work every day except Tuesday and Wednesday as well. And with the 1ish hour que times for AV weekend it’s hard for me to get many games in either.
The idea that terrain plays no role in a BG and that a non mirrored map can’t favor one side is as silly as any of the other excuses the trolls pretending to defend AV have made up.
1 Like
Pretending the map layout has no bearing on how the map can be played is attempting to dismiss all factors except the endgame. When both factions can teleport from point A to point B, he might have a point.
I mean the factors that lead us to the end of that game have been outlined in this very thread.
The map or rather the cave positions is the biggest difference in the win/loss records for both sides. Which is also the vocal point of this very thread. The Rez situation is what needs to be addressed.
1 Like
Not to mention anything someone posts is suspect. Addon data is easily doctored, photos are easily manipulated, personal reports are easily made-up. The only one with the real data is Blizzard and they aren’t talking.
So it’s useless to even bother with the dance of “show me the data”.
1 Like
You cant ride to straight to the end boss and just pve youre way through it now? Its been done before, even in classic and you can still witness teams trying to rush past the other one to this day. I mean, its an option right? Of course it is, so I guess the mid gy’s importance as a win condition or otherwise is entirely dependent on how the game is playing out and where you are in that game and when. Its not an inherent, preexisting map problem. Its all conditional.
I guess if youre opponent says hey, theyre racing, go get in their way and kill them the map might be an issue when youre in a real freakin hurry and the team defending any GY with more than a handful of people will always have an edge by virtue of spawning at a GY that you sent them too. Its not unique to IBGY - thats just how AV works.
It wasnt that long ago that the horde used to verbally maul any horde player even jokingly suggesting to go for SH or SF GY in the early part of the game. Horde didnt want to turtle either - it just worked out that way.
1 Like
We’re arguing the same thing and it’s just semantics at this point. IBGY is too reinforceable of a location. Horde start too far north. There are too many easy chokes for the horde to defend in places that really matter for a win condition. Yes, alliance have the great choke at the bridge but it won’t ever come into play until the reinforcement mechanic is added.
2 Likes
Even with reinforcements it doesn’t come into play unless alliance managed to burn a bunch of stuff before being forced back to DB.
1 Like
Every GY is “too reinforceable” when most of the other team is spawning at the place youre trying to take when you gotta run in from somewhere else.
Just ask the slew of AVs Ive been playing where we cant take SH or it takes like 45 minutes.
They dont even really do it anymore but in the face of 2 hour queues it was fairly custom for 30 horde to recall/run south and fight for our GYs and towers. Its important to keep that stuff if you dont want to make it harder on yourself and/or lose miserably. Cuz thats how AV works.
Imagine if our cave was right next to SHGY.
That 45 minutes now turns into hours.
3 Likes
Are you for real dude? I have demanded NOTHING whatsoever. The closest I have come is asking Shrinkydink to provide his own data, since he was harping on others not having data for THEIR claims.
And you are basing your accusal of lying on what exactly? Your more than half a year of not playing the BG since premades were still running?
You have absolutely nothing beyond feels at this point.
This would certainly be another solution, move the alliance cave up by the lumber mill.
1 Like
Again, that only matters when 30 people are congregated in that region for the expressed purpose of stopping the other team from taking a GY. If I put 40 people in and around Tower Point youre not taking it. Its a team decision. Or you pvp’d them into a corner and now youre in their territory which naturally gives them the defensive advantage if they commit to it.
It can be replicated just about anywhere for either faction.
It’s not amazing skill on the part of the horde.
It’s the lack of skill from alliance having so much dead weight that makes them lose.
1 Like
Since he has no proof of any of this data, isn’t that just feels?.
Just like your argument is all feels.
2 Likes
And yet your argument BiS all feels as well based on your own logic.
My opinion is based on many peoples self provided data. Sure they could have lied to me. But I don’t think 2000+ people with the majority claiming alliance get near a 40% winrate in AV weekend is a bad sample size.
Yes there is map issues… But the majority of those losses based on the data, stories, opinions, exc. I have seen, all point to the player behavior being the major issue to that winrate. The map is a factor, I’m not disagreeing with that. But it’s not the major cause of that winrate issue.
You did not get 2,000 people to confirm data stop exaggerating. This is exactly why people don’t believe you.
My argument is based off math. Go do a respawn spreadsheet on The Horde cave while the Alliance soft cap IBGy and control SHGY.
Look how massive that disparity is
2 Likes
I didn’t say all 2000+ gave the same opinion, I said the majority.
This discord server is from the start of classic. Again, the map is a factor. But based on the data I have seen, it is not the major factor.