It shouldn’t even remotely matter, the problem is people make it matter.
I 100% have the right to do any content I want with whatever spec I want and anyone who thinks they have the right to take that from me or anyone else does not deserve to play.
But the “People” who make it matter don’t care about the fun, they don’t even care if they violate the ToS, the only thing they care about is what is meta and those “people” deserve nothing.
Ultimately even if you are correct that Devastation is the more viable option 99.9% of the time that still doesn’t change the fact that both specs need to be perfectly and equally viable and part of that starts with “people” needing to take their collective thumbs out of their rear ends and focus on actually playing and having fun rather then only caring about meta.
But unless Blizz steps in and puts the smack down on these metatards then things like this will just continue.
To answer the question, yes I have had instances where I was denied entry into a party cause “Ewww Devastation, be Augmentation or no thanks”, quite frankly I do not view anyone who acts like that as a person.
My dude, this is not how multi player games (or reality) work, unless you’re making the group (which is an option available to you).
Your highest keys you’re doing are +7’s. Devastation IS the more meta spec for that content. And for the next 6-7 keys above those.
If you’re having this much trouble, you have the option to not pug.
But those people are just literally wrong and want their key to go slowly af.
This isn’t a balancing conversation. Blizzard isn’t responsible for community perception or education. They can’t govern what people say on twitch or how they (incorrectly) interpret community-created content, lol.
You would also get people saying that if you were a survival hunter, Frost mage, assassination rogue, arms warrior, etc etc.
I’m not sure what you actually think should be done here, lol.
Use of my +7s as an argument is a non factor, I’ve gone higher in previous seasons and last season when Augmentation came around I was doing keys in excess of +7s up to +10s or more, I still had people acting like this. So my annoyance is perfectly valid.
What you’re failing to understand is that your argument is with dumb people and not the balance.
I have not had a single group ask me to go Aug this season, because dev is better even in the keys I’m doing. It wasn’t a knock on the level of content you’re doing, it was a statement of fact.
I’m not claiming that you’re lying; I’m sure there are idiots asking people to go Aug in 7’s. That doesn’t make it a balancing issue, though.
Two DPS specs of the same class will never be equally viable across all content. Expecting them to be is naive and unrealistic.
For what it’s worth btw, thank you for actually taking the time to talk about this and actually being respectful. I’ve had numerous instances where people have told me outright that my arguments or frustrations are dumb. Like I’ve seen people respond to me by saying what you said in your initial comment just now except they worded it like this “Your argument is dumb, get over it.” so thank you for not being one of “them”.
It never did outside of initial launch and ultra key pushing
You mean like every “non-meta” spec? push your own key or form your own raid group.
Then be dev? like its not hard you don’t have to go to aug to get into a group.
Things nobody did for 500? Bro lets not go off the deep end here. Push your own key if its that tough
Blizzard can’t be blamed for the fact that people don’t realize they don’t need meta for their +2’s. Like how are they supposed to fix it? They cant force anyone to take people in LFG.
and they have a right not to play with you? simple as that like what?
How is picking specs in LFG violating TOS? nothing here is against TOS?
Blizzard can’t and won’t do anything because its not against TOS to not take certain classes or specs
Well, yeah. Something is wrong with the people refusing to invite a similarly qualified or better qualified Devoker, especially in S2 when Augvoker launched. Devoker was absolutely cranking out damage in S2 if memory serves correctly. Anybody denying a qualified Devoker over a less qualified Augvoker up into what used to be +20s had their head firmly planted up their own rear end.
Viable is different from optimal. Every spec in the game has been “viable” throughout the entirety of Dragonflight in M+ with rare (usually unintentional) exceptions.
People who blindly follow a meta have always and will always exist.
There’s no part of the TOS that requires somebody to accept anybody into their group regardless of spec.
Oh, I agree completely with that. I feel like the Hero Talents are a half-step in that direction, but a lot of classes would benefit majorly from another spec. Ranged Warrior, Tank Rogue, Healing Mage, Tank Warlock, Tank Shaman, etc.
^ The entire pug community. So those who play off-meta specs will always be screwed. People can say on the forums that Dev is better than Aug until they are blue in the face, but it won’t help community perception. The fact is that people who don’t play a meta spec will have to go back to endlessly applying and being declined unless they run their own key, which doesn’t help those who need a specific dungeon timed or piece of loot.
Anyways, hearing that Aug got a nerf is a little sad. I felt like although the survivability it brings was in a good place at the end of s3, its actual damage could have used some help. Losing a main dps on a Tyrannical boss with no brez available could screw over the entire key that had previously gone smoothly.
They’re saying this because it’s factually accurate.
Blizzard is not responsible for balancing with community perception in mind. These same issues exist between other multiple DPS spec classes.
I haven’t been asked to play Aug once in any key up to a 12. Obviously that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, but it’s not nearly as pervasive as some of this hyperbole suggests.
Augs DPS got massively buffed with new talents and will be moreso with hero talents. The nerfs it got were needed.
Yes, not arguing that it’s not accurate - it is. But it doesn’t matter because people will imitate their favorite streamers or m+ groups, not what whatever us randoms on the forums are saying is factually accurate.
I would argue that Blizz should balance with community perception in mind, and make all classes at least somewhat desirable in the community’s eyes. If they were somehow able to balance the classes to be approximately equal, we wouldn’t have outliers like Veng DH was last season.
But I don’t know if it’s even possible to design classes ‘fairly’ from season to season; I don’t design games.
These are one in the same. Reputable streamers are not saying that Aug is powerful in content below the bleeding edge.
People are playing it in that high end content and then people running +4-10 think that means that it’s good.
There are no good streamers saying “every key needs an Aug”.
This is absurd though. Blizzard should balance with balance in mind irrespective of community perception.
They can’t (and shouldn’t) adjust their game around what dummies are deciding is good across the board because they saw it being run in a +18 on a stream.
Firstly, they should have been way more proactive with bringing vdh back to earth.
That said, whether vdh is 2% better than all other tanks or 20% better, roughly the same general fotm playerbase is going to shift to it; that’s the nature of any meta.
Hasn’t been my experience. I’m sure there were some groups I’ve been declined from over the years for not playing ‘a meta spec’, and I’m pretty sure those are groups not worth joining anyways.
Pushing up as a DPS is misery in general, even if you are playing the ‘meta’. This would be why I usually do my pushing as a healer or tank for score, then do keys for fun as dps.
That’s the life of DPS in general. It usually has more to do with your IO and ilvl than it does with whether or not you’re on a ‘meta’ spec. Even if your IO and ilvl match up, there can be (and often are) other valid reasons; wanting a hero or brez in a group that doesn’t have one of them, for instance.
You don’t want to be in groups where people are blindly imitating streamer/top io comps. Believe me, they’re usually gonna brick anyways, because some misguided soul thinking the perfect comp magically finishes the key for them will usually be disabused of that notion very quickly.
Every class is somewhat desirable, though. Every class is perfectly viable up to and past the point at which tangible rewards stop increasing.
How much more should we cater to community balance than that? There will always be specific things taken at the actual literal bleeding edge of content, but that has no bearing on 99% of the people doing M+.
My point is that if good balance was a thing, community perception would be more favorable towards all classes across the board. But I’m not interested in pressing it any more and don’t want to further derail the thread.
You don’t have to continue talking about it if you don’t want, but this isn’t really accurate.
Community perception itself is what’s creating this idea that there isn’t good balance. The simple fact that people don’t realize the stronger spec in almost all content should be the desirable one is proof of this.
Devastation is the better spec in the content that anyone posting here is doing, and it’s better by far.
And yet, the community perception is that augmentation is ruining the m+ meta for everyone when it’s not.
The perception will always be a hyperbolic (mis)interpretation of what’s happening in the title range and above. The reality of the balance doesn’t matter at all in this case, because people just want to parrot what they hear instead of looking at the reality.
Balance being an issue at the literal top end of content being run is not the same issue as balance being borked across the board.
Community perception generally is favorable to whoever has more gear and a better IO/run history, where DPSers are concerned. People can and do climb IO every single day as “off-meta” DPS.
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