I think that a free market where players set their prices and control how many of an item they want to release for sale from their inventory is necessary to have any kind of interesting economy in a game that players actively seek to participate in. In such an economy whoever puts in the most effort (assuming they’re not incapable of learning) will almost assuredly become wealthy. Wealth very much begets more wealth, but as long as those wealthy people aren’t given full arbitrary control over the systems that made them wealthy then anyone willing to put in the same effort that they did can make the same journey, albeit against stiffer competition.
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I prefer to have my own video game dreamworld where the 1% don’t exist. So we’ll leave our disagreement with an agree to disagree.
I have always been on cancels. You keep thinking you did something and caught me in some gotcha moment if I talk about different aspects. I said from the start I want cancel scanning to go away. And that is the area that blizzard has targeted. Just because you have still made money doesn’t mean it isn’t where they are focusing. I am ignoring your second paragraph because its more nonsense where you think you caught me red handed because I talked about more than one thing.
It’s not that you talk about different aspects, please share as many reasons as you can explain. However you still haven’t explained why you think it’s bad which as i’ll point out was the first question i asked. The part of your original post that focused on your reasons for not liking cancels was:
Or paraphrased “I don’t like it because it means I and the many like me who don’t put in the effort don’t sell as much as the people who do put in that effort.” So if you have a better explanation than “I don’t want to play the game” then please provide actual constructive feedback and post a solution to the problem that doesn’t completely remove a player driven economy.
I’ll also point out that I often don’t log in to do anything for 12+ hours out of the day and on high pop servers still sell multiple items regardless. So you’re not just being lazy about how often you post, you’re also being lazy about figuring out what’s worth posting and when to post it.
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I’ve already explained that several times. I told you it isn’t about me but you keep hanging on to that because you cannot accept that people can be objective and remove their personal motivations from the argument. I DON’T CARE HOW IT IMPACTS ME.
Just like I don’t care about how the allied race grind unlocks me personally - I did the work! But I still think it is bad for the game for new players to have to do all that work and throw it away just to play a race. That is just one example.
I think the cancel-scan-camp paradigm is worse for more players than it is good, by a large large margin, and that AH whales can still be wildly successful without it.
You constantly try to move the discussion to my personal motivations. STOP IT.
If you don’t care how it impacts you and your posts are oh so objective then why do your posts center on you and your feelings and not on objective helpful solutions? You again have said you think cancel-scan-camp is worse but you have not said WHY it’s worse, you’ve not said HOW it harms anyone, you’ve not said what can actually be done to fix this thing that you see to be a problem. I’m asking you for your perspective because it’s literally the only one you have, I’ll “STOP IT” when you provide something constructive to the conversation beyond “i don’t like it.”
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I can offer a perspective without it being tied to my personal gain, unlike yourself. I have given several possible solutions and fully admit they need to be fleshed out further, while you have just given basically a wall of no. It’s clear you just want to keep your advantage with no regard for the overall health of the market.
I have said how it harms others, I specifically spoke about how it forces a camping paradigm, you just don’t like the notion of that potentially changing. Oddly thought you even admitted to another poster you don’t WANT cancel scanning, but then turn around and defend it to no end. Just because you haven’t personally embraced an alternative doesn’t mean there are none with merit that could improve the system.
I’m not going to address your petty focus on fake motivations you make up because you cannot fathom any perspective other than your own. Stick to the actual argument like an adult.
What solutions? Removing the cancel button? As I’ve said that doesn’t have any affect on the people who can spend all day cancel scanning as they can simply, and I stress SIMPLY, increase their inventory. The need to camp is 100% in your head, go check out WTBGold, he’s spoken several times about how yes constant cancel scanning increased his profits marginally but that margin only barely outpaced his increased costs and when you account for the extra time spent he went back to simply posting and re-posting whatever expired. You literally cannot get around the minority dominating the market in the fashion you dislike while maintaining and open and free market.
I do not WANT to cancel scan, and as I have also said i often do not. But somehow that doesn’t stop me from making sales as you seem to claim it does. You say i haven’t embraced the alternative, but you still haven’t provided one that isn’t gotten around with little more than the blink of an eye. Please provide me an alternative that works while maintaining a free and open market that anyone can step into and I will write essay after essay about it for you to share the world over.
I’ve not strayed from the argument, so keep it coming.
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I never claimed it “stops you from getting sales”. Keep making things up. If it doesn’t increase profits then there is no reason to not mitigate it. The need to camp isn’t in my head, it has a direct impact on who ends up getting sales. Just because it didn’t have a huge impact for certain people doesn’t mean that the average player who posts is going to get the sales.
I am not trying to eliminate the minority dominating entirely, i am focusing on this one aspect which also happens to have a performance impact on everyone. Also not sure where you got the idea that the ah is a free and open market? That’s like saying the US economy is a free and open market, it isn’t at all. Especially evidenced by the fact that blizz just moved to restrict cancels. Not free or open to do whatever you want.
End of the day it doesn’t matter because blizzard will choose to do what they want. I just have an issue with the way you approach the discussion. It’s disingenuous and comes from a false position of superiority.
Once again, you said that without cancel scanning you “simply don’t get sales”. Please keep backpedaling, it grants you all kind of credibility. The number of items that sell the first time you post is limited and the competition is heaviest in those areas because of the perception that those sell the most, however they also take the most effort to sell at market rates without just offering massive discounts for bulk buys in trade chat.
I love how you’re calling me disingenuous when you literally try to claim you didn’t say what you said. I simply asked you repeatedly to delve deeper and provide constructive actionable feedback that is useful to the conversation on the state of the auction house. “I don’t like it” and “I think it’s bad for the average player” are not actionable or constructive, they don’t help anyone fix or even understand anything.
There is only one category of item that cannot be sold on the AH and that is soulbound items, even then these items are still frequently sold in the form of carries. That is about as free and open as an economy can get. Having restrictions on the sale of certain items does not make the economy not free and open, requiring that items be sold only in certain quantities and at certain prices makes it not free and open. And the only way that I know of to even the playing field so that things sell “evenly” is to make it so that you can’t set your own prices or decide how much of an item you want to sell. Even that might not work requiring the complete elimination of any kind of economy from the game and making all items soulbound so that no trading can occur.
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Do the current setting effect someone that is trying to xmog shop in a prior expansion? This would involve searching roughly 400 items.
If my intent is to buy - would I be the intended audience for the throttling?
Lol oh my god, keep trying to be so stuck on your own interpretation of anything I say, it’s pathetic. You said that I claimed YOU will not get sales if you don’t cancel scan. You will already get sales because you are a power seller. The average player will not get the same kind of action remotely unless they babysit the AH. You keep thinking you got me in some gotcha moment any time I say something, because you can’t make a real argument without trying to discredit rather than disprove, because you actually can’t disprove me.
I gave plenty of other explanations other than “i don’t like it” and “i think it’s bad for the average player”, you just chose to dismiss and ignore them because they might not be perfect and need refining.
Your last point is irrelevant… to prove wow has an open market you point to the one thing that is not covered by the auction house… which is exactly the market we are talking about. Then you go on about making the market even, which is not what I am proposing at all. I am proposing they eliminate this one factor that both slows down the ah for everyone and reinforces the need to babysit.
It’s literally impossible to misinterpret the things I’m quoting you on, you’re making blanket statements with no room for debate and not backing them up, often trying to deny them later.
I’m not going to repeat my responses to the rest of this post to you anymore because you obviously don’t or can’t understand that removing cancel scans doesn’t stop you from getting undercut in a busy market where the power users have backstock of anything you can post, or the ability to create the backstock. Removing the cancel button doesn’t stop AH campers from camping it only makes them keep more inventory which is a widely available commodity.
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@Madbeatz, I don’t think your use case is the intended target for this change. Are you running into this issue with the current settings?
I am making general comments and you are trying to frame them as absolutes with “no room for debate”, it’s ridiculous lol. I never even said “remove the cancel button”, this is the kind of garbage you are trying to misrepresent.
I think we would both be served best by ending our conversation.
Yes you’re making broad sweeping statements, i’m glad you agree. And i’m framing them as no room for debate because you literally won’t provide any actionable or constructive responses to any question on your stance. You just keep trying to claim you didn’t make the statement or change the topic to some other problem you don’t back up.
You’re right what you said was cancel scans are the problem and then later that the problem should be eliminated. How do you propose removing cancel scans without removing the cancel button? I ask this not because I care any longer what you have to say but because I know that you will not answer any question directly or with actionable and constructive responses.
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I gave plenty of answers and examples and said they need to be fleshed out more, you try to narrow them and reframe to your benefit. Have a nice life.
You didn’t other than your very disconnected way of saying the problem needed to be eliminated. You did say that others had proposed ideas that still needed to be fleshed out, but didn’t actually say what any of those were. You still haven’t answered a single one of my questions directly and continue to deflect. Take care, I’ll see you on the AH.
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Big Yay for me, since the hotfix Im able to post things without delays for some reason. Before it I had to wait like 5 seconds in order to post another item.
I sure did, I mentioned buy orders, throttling, holding items for x amount of time, cancel fees, etc. This is how ridiculous you are being about this. You just pretend it never happened. Pure gaslighting.