Gather them? No, he bought out every other auction available as it’s listed all at once, then resells them so he’s the only one selling stuff. Doesn’t farm at all. People shouldn’t have to pay to move because he’s exploiting and using bots to spend a couple minutes a day ruining the server for everyone else. And because it’s not the norm, Blizz shouldn’t take action against him? OK bro.
Well, if he bought yours… Didn’t you get the price you were asking for it?
Second, you could do the exact same thing if you were inclined to do so, without botting.
Lastly, it’s not against the ToS and Blizzard hasn’t said “Don’t do this,” ever. As to your “it’s not the norm” argument, there are a number of people on every server that actually do this.
Yes you should. You use a resource more, you pay more for it. In fact every month the orphanage in Orgrimmar should get a bit bigger as they raise your “taxes”
I hate the new graphical interface.
Not surprisingly, he isn’t heavily invested in this exchange, so you’ve had the last word here. This might draw parallels to some of his in-game activities, goals, and sentiments.
I hate being so late to the discussion. Likely no one reads this.
If someone buys it out to repost…just make more. Keep making more and keep letting them buy you out. Assuming you’re selling at a profit, you win. Also, increase the price to find out where they’ll stop buying. Then keep pumping them full of whatever they’ll keep buying.
There isn’t anyone losing out here…and it’s weird to think there is.
I noticed it is simpler for me to post the random stuff I have lying around and buying things is a lot easier to do. I enjoy the changes to the AH. Then again this is feedback from a player that hasn’t posted anything or purchased anything in probably 2 weeks now.
You were pulled out of your AC cave a number of days ago, I would try the same here…I recently explained to someone the great benefits to TSM as I saw them…I explained to them how it made it practical for me to purchase herbs & ore from the AH, craft pots/elixirs/metal thingies, and then sell them at a price, and he just casually dismissed it as “flipping”.
I confess I was a bit put off by this summary, as I feel I’m offering a transformative value and not merely flipping…I view myself as a producer…a link in a chain…
But all this to ask, Mr. Blammo…do you consider what I do flipping?
Ugh…please don’t thank Blizzard for shooting you in the knee instead of the head.
The post definitely said traffic or activity, but didn’t use so concrete a term as “post” or “item”. I don’t think we can jump to the conclusion that they make a significant portion of the AH volume…only that they generate a large amount of the post/cancel/post thrashing.
No, I don’t consider that flipping. You’re playing the shuffle game, I’ve done that many times myself. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Now, if you were buying herbs and making flasks then owning the flask market by living your life in a constant cancel scan, then yes, problem. It’s the people who would buy out what they consider cheap flasks, raise them all to 2000 gold (example only) and then use TSM to do what it does to keep the prices high.
If you do all that by hand and with purposeful clicking then you deserve the rewards. If you’re using the algorithm you inputted into TSM and had it do the work for you, then you’d absolutely be part of the problem.
Hi, you were saying?
I have no idea, that was 11 days ago.
you know what you were saying, mr “no long boi can’t make gold”
I have no clue what you’re trying to say.
Warning, this is going to be a wall of text. TLDR; Blizzard is trying to do the right thing, but it’s trying to do it the wrong way.
I’m a video game developer with a background in computer science and economics. Studying and implementing in-game economies is something I do professionally (I should add that I have no connection to Blizzard whatsoever outside of playing their games in my personal time). This is just my opinion based on my experiences in the industry, I don’t have any insider information about the decision making process for Blizzard games.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with “flipping”, it’s the business model of any brick-and-mortar retailer. Sellers have the obvious incentive of earning as much gold for as little product as possible, and buyers have the exact opposite incentive. If the price of a product is too high, people won’t buy it. If people stop buying something because of price, that exerts pressure on the seller to lower prices. It’s a clash of wills: will the buyer cave and make the purchase or will the seller cave and lower prices? These are basic economic principles, nothing controversial.
So why would Blizzard take actions against basic economic theory? To answer that, we should consider the obvious effect “flipping” has on the game economy: it creates upwards pressure on the price for goods on the auction house. When upwards pressure continues to exceed downwards pressure over time, it leads to what economists call “inflation”.
From Blizzard’s perspective inflation is a very bad thing, because it creates a barrier-to-entry for new players who have not accumulated enough gold to buy goods from the marketplace. Until a new player has enough gold to do anything with it, that gold is effectively worthless. Worse, as soon as they have enough money to spend it on something, they are immediately back to being broke again.
I think this is what Blizzard aims to address with this hot fix (I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt that it’s not simply about making tokens the only viable way to obtain a longboi). They are trying to combat rising prices and reduce inflation by disincentivizing the practice flipping. HOWEVER, it’s the wrong way to solve that problem.
It’s the wrong way to solve the problem primarily because it won’t solve the problem, throttling flippers doesn’t stop flipping. Nor should it! Flipping is older than WoW and it will endure long after WoW. Flipping isn’t the problem, inflation is the problem. The reason flippers have an advantage moving the price upwards because there are willing buyers. Upwards price movement is only sustainable when there is sufficient currency to actually pay for things as costs rise, which is exactly what’s happening right now in the game. Max level players generate so much gold so quickly that they don’t really care if Peacebloom costs 3-5g each.
It’s also the wrong way to solve the problem because it punishes a subcommunity of players for a problem created by the design choices of the game developer. Max level players don’t have enough meaningful ways to spend the enormous amounts of gold they earn unless they save up ridiculously enormous amounts of gold to buy expensive vanity items (like the longboi). So what do most players do with all that gold? They pay more at the auction house.
Flippers aren’t bad people (who do you think buys all those tokens?). Their goal is to make money and they simply recognize that the average player has greater liquid capital (gold) than ever before in the history of the game. It’s natural that prices would rise. In some ways, flippers actually provide a huge benefit to the game. You know what the real economic effect buying a longboi has? It deletes five million gold from the economy, fighting inflation in the process.
Throttling doesn’t fix the problem. The ease of generating raw gold and the lack of meaningful gold sinks are the problems, throttling does nothing to address those issues.
If I had to re-roll completely from scratch and was able to choose between a freshly started realm with no transfers in being capable or an established realm with heavy inflation - I would take the established realm every time. Because on the fresh realm, I would have to farm/buy and store for months as a hedge against inflation; whereas on the inflated realm I can hop in and start farming up stuff and selling it right away as it already has value.
It’s one of the reasons why I used to take herbalism and inscription if I started on a new realm before glyphs were made practically worthless by revamping the system. I could gather/buy herbs while leveling and sell glyphs at a nice markup, making my time investment for the income being quite favorable. Gathering professions and inscription are among the best for someone starting out. The other crafting professions have most of their demand coming from just the current expansion worth of stuff. But none of that works as well if the economy isn’t established.
This is the best post in this very, very long thread.
The throttle is absolutely still there when posting. Super noticeable on the tmog seller toon.
This is particularly frustrating since mogs are typically the 1 and done type posts every 2 or 3 days. Not the cancel/repost every 15 minute affair that are enchants, pots, flasks, mats.
They never said they were getting rid of it entirely. It’s been almost a month since I last relisted my stuff and it wasn’t intrusive then (around 500 transmogs). About finished with my classic auctions and heading to retail to keep my AH expires from expiring from the mail and my inventory entirely. Will update.
Ok, so I listed all 472 items and outside of a one second hiccup after the first 100 in the post scan each time, it was just fine. Though I do run two accounts and was busy on the other account for a moment so there was a few min pause in the middle where I was just standing at the mailbox with full bags.