I disagree. The story’s plots are too wrapped up in the player moving them along that things just don’t work anymore if you start giving players leeway in what they’re allowed to consider canon. No horde character’s hands are clean.
No i mean if the player didnt physically participate in that event and grt that achievement then they didn’t do it.
Especially when you cant even do that event.
I would agree with you if that player did that event and then we go back retroactively to undo it.
Except if we’re going by achievements as the metric for having done the content, then every alliance player who has done their side has automatically damned all of their horde characters, due to it being a shared achievement across both factions.
I don’t believe Blizzard’s going to put in the effort to account for people who choose to do some events and boycott others, so I think the simplest solution is to have the story assume all players do level-relevant plot content. If the event wasn’t removed, then I’m positive it would have been a required questline before being allowed to move onto the Lordaeron battle before being allowed to start BFA’s leveling content.
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Nothing against horde fans, or Sylvanas fans - some people like playing the evil faction, right?
It’s just weird when those people defend Sylvanas and the actions of the horde in the War of the Thorns and start calling her an Anti-Hero or some other unreasonable stuff.
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But literally Anduin says the purpose of the invasion of Dazar’alor was to cripple the Zandalaris before they can join the war and Nathanos says we finally won their trust by 8.1.5 and I doubt they are lying us with that topic.
Ok
Because is their word against yours and the zandalari leadership coincide on that matter. The attack of Nazmir was the real kicker.
You really don’t get anything about the factions in this game, do you? The Forsaken are not a single person, and the Zandalari are not just a fleet.
The formed the desolate council when she wasn’t around and so far it was a more alliance friendly state than with her. Also I know the zandalari aren’t a fleet but without any way of transporting those troops, they are locked in the island
My objetive is to prove the whole invasion was foolish when they could cripple the zandalaris without invanding the island and go straight to Orgrimmar to finish the war. After all even the zandalaris wouldn’t find an all out war alone
And you’ve failed spectacularly.
How do you figure that? The War of Thorns is detailed in 2 novels which don’t mention the player character at all. It goes off just fine without an extra foot soldier there.
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I don’t get why people still think we exist in the capacity the story says we do. As if some extremely powerful general of the Alliance/Horde forces would be ignored as an asset if they actually existed in lore.
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Exactly. You would think someone in Elegy or A Good War would mention the Champion of the Horde just moved through and mowed a bunch of people down if we actually did the things that we do in game.
Our actions in non-raid story are probably just attributed to Sylvanas or Malfurion or whatever other named characters are there.
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Even in the raids we’re likely just a faceless soldier in an army, if a little more skilled than most. Nobody is ever going to say “oh hey you remember that guy xxxnoobslayerxxx? He went toe to toe with the Lich King himself, we should call him up to fight!”
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Except that’s…straight-up the case. Arthas’ plan was literally to lure us - the Champions of the Alliance and Horde - to Icecrown Citadel and make us new champions of the Scourge. He wasn’t killed by a bunch of faceless Alliance, Horde or Argent soldiers; the outright story of ICC was that of the factions’ champions nearly falling to the Lich King, only to rise up with Tirion’s and Terenas’ aid to strike him down.
Moreover when Alliance players first arrive in Valiance Keep there are even questgivers who are surprised to see someone with our reputation arriving on the front lines. Naturally meta details like weird meme-y names and the like wouldn’t be canon, but the overall existence of the players as a group being this class of uber-Champions involved with taking down these world-ending threats to Azeroth is repeatedly reinforced.
Any time we see stuff like “rogues” (which remains a clumsy fantasy game mechanic title that has no business existing in the lore characters’ vernacular, but I digress) effortlessly ripping through nameless “NPC” soldiers in story material - as occurred in A Good War - that’s supposed to be “us.” Or rather, some of us anyway.
Because there isn’t just a Champion of the Horde (well, there’s Rexxar, but he’s special.) We are the Champions of the Horde (or Alliance.) People are just so used to playing non-instanced and non-PvP content in retail WoW as if it’s a single-player game that they forget there are supposed to be groups of player-representing Champions engaging in the major events of the expansions, including those outside the raids and dungeons. By virtue of increased accessibility (some call it catering to casuals), mechanically we can do practically everything in the open world alone because the days of engaging more than two mobs in a pull equaling death are long past, but as far as the overall story is concerned, the D&D-inspired, Vanilla-era fantasy essence of Champions and those adventurers aspiring to join them grouping up to form elite parties in the face of their challenges is still how things work.
In short, the rogues handily butchering Sentinels and trying to assassinate Malfurion in Astranaar? Those were, in effect, players.
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Sadly the Alliance and Horde champion has simply just become a tool for transporting the heart of Azeroth around. Could have attached it to the heart to random peon or peasant and the story doesn’t change.
Atleast in Legion we felt important leaders of a Class faction and had unique Legendary weapons. Its sad they stripped all that away from our characters again.
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Oh hey I just read this, now I feel sadtime.
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It’s cool, I’ve got plans for getting her out of it. It wouldn’t feel right to RP a Laughing Skull without RPing the logical drawbacks of being a Laughing Skull.
(plus I had a chuckle at drawing the VHS cover/fake screenshots of the inevitable workplace training video Vozul eventually stars in, instructing new employees on orcish mental health, entitled “ME ORC, HOW ORC?”)
I can pop those pics on the SF Discord actually.
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I didn’t know you drew. This pleases me.
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Ok sir, can you tell me how much has the alliance gained from killing Rastakhan and destroying the Zandalari fleet?
Literally why is more important raid a troll city than taking Orgrimmar and killing Sylvanas?
The Zandalari Empire was a horrifically powerful force to be deployed against the Alliance - and it WAS going to be deployed - before the siege. Now it’s a less threatening one.
Simple stuff, you just don’t wanna accept it.
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They are still have an army capable of fighting with all the might of the alliance and even Anduin admits the cost was too high and the Zandalari still joined the horde despite of their efforts.
Anduin Wrynn says: Yes, but at what cost? So many fallen… including Mekkatorque, whose life hangs by a thread. And I fear the death of Rastakhan will ignite a fire in the hearts of the Zandalari.
Anduin Wrynn says: But our mission was to drive a wedge between the Zandalari and the Horde. Instead, we may have strengthened their bond.
Then all that effort went to naught thanks to the naga and for wasting time in Zandalar instead of moving to Orgrimmar. Honestly what is your point here?
An army that’s stuck on an island is as useless as never having recruited the Zandalari at all. Their navy was the whole point they were needed, as assessed in A Good War:
- The Horde’s fleet had been battered, too. Even if they could overwhelm the Alliance fleet—debatable at best—they would still have the same problem as a land‐based approach: not enough ships to transport a suitable ground force to take and hold the city.
Correct me if I’m wrong on this, but wasn’t the naval situation between the two factions evened out again when the Alliance had a good number of ships smashed when they fell into Nazjatar?