As a new-ish rogue I still can’t get over how underwhelming the assassination talent choices are from a PVE perspective.
Performance wise, you could leave the Level 25 row unselected and be relatively unaffected given the poor synergy between the vanish CD and MA talent in raid encounters. Adding a % of crit into the vanish CD just feels like an afterthought passive that could have been better allocated to something which adds more value to the specs rotation.
Level 45 have a few interesting choices but are essentially hard locked by the alacrity talent, just another passive. This could just be a Rogue class passive at this point which I feel would offer more value to the class than having a dead talent row.
The level 50 talent row is the pinical of “meh” in my opinion - how is anyone supposed to feel rewarded for leveling to the final talent row when all you get is the Poison bomb talent - this talent feels like the Devs are just playing jokes. Another boring passive, offering a tiny portion of overall dps. On ‘the final’ talent row. This feels like a massive let down.
The level 15 row kinda feels like the row that offers up the most value ‘thematically’ and performance wise to the ‘bleed and poison specialist’ - seems really odd that this would occur in the first talent row we unlock.
I know my rant is never going to be picked up on the Devs radar - just wanted to voice my disappointment. As I said at the start I’m a new-ish rogue, this being my first xpac as a rogue main- and I feel like if things don’t start to improve I’ll be going back to my old main for raids.
Thanks- I get the theory crafting behind larger burst windows at 2 min intervals. In practice though seems a bit off?? I was having a look at your assassin heroic logs real quick (10th Feb) grats on the guild sire kill btw
on your shriek kill you seemed to cast your second vanish about 6ish seconds before your second Vendetta? Was that just a GCD/timing issue?
On pull looks like you cast Vendetta 10 seconds into the fight and then vanish a few seconds after? I feel like using the crit % off pull and vanish 5-6 seconds after pull would have been better to get max use of the crit bonus for the duration of vendetta? (We’re splitting hairs at this point but from a min max perspective seems like timings were off by 30-ish %)
on the sludge kill I noticed you tried to use vanish / vendetta separately for each pillar- wouldn’t it have been better to line them both up for pillar 1 & 3?
the generals fight is a mess for cds - but I noticed the same thing where your vanish and vendetta didn’t line up?
So I guess in theory I get what you’re trying to say- using the MA talent with vendetta should allow for a decent burst at 2 minute intervals- in reality though it didn’t seem to line up. Could be a CN issue? Fights requiring holding cds for windows? What’re your thoughts?
(I assume you were the druid with the Ø for the Sire Kill? I didn’t see your rogue in the group)
Without going too much into the back and forth of whether it was timing issue or a personal mistake; from what you mentioned >> especially on the Vendetta 10 secs after pull issue << is that the MA talent offered very little to your opening rotation in that instance & throughout the duration of those fights? Like realistically even if you timed the pull and rotation perfectly, you would only have had between 15-20 seconds of 50% extra crit? when fights are lasting 6+ minutes that’s only effective for like ~5% of the total encounter?
It might be more effective on shorter pulls- but there aren’t many fights lasting less than 2 mins these days?
To me that just seems soo unrewarding for PvE a talent choice, especially compared to some of the well performing classes/specs
Going back to what the original thread was about (my sook about the talents being unsatisfying) for a PVE situation- having talent choices which only affect 9 - 15 seconds of a fight - depending on whether you take MA or Subter, is not a great selection of choice for PVE content (in my opinion) this row feels like they were carry over PvP choices which we’ve had to adapt for use in lengthy pve scenarios.
Bummer about the sire attempt- you’ll get there for sure dude
They sure do, the last two rows in particular are terribly balanced, Alacrity is basically a must, and Poison Bomb is overall better and more flexible than the other two options.
The level 50 row is probably what I have the most issues with- how can that be the pinnacle row for assassination. Looking at most other dps classes, the final row offers a bit of wow factor. Assassin rogues get an actual turd.
Literally on my raidbot Sims right now Poison Bomb is doing less overall damage than my trinkets & potions (granted I’m not wearing a leggo, but how on earth is a final talent row THAT weak)
To be fair, whenever my Poison Bomb proc’s, I’m thinking “WOW, i wish the tank would stop kiting the boss.”
I just checked a few of my logs from last night. Sure enough, Dreadfire Vessel was bout 3% of dps, Poison Bomb was only 2%. However it did net more dps than Flagellation.
Our talents are very underwhelming compared to other classes but they’re far from being bad.
Master Assassin works very well with Vendetta for some big burst and Subterfuge is also a strong talent, once we get better gear Subterfuge will be a significant DPS increase as Garrote does a ton of damage and you’re able to apply the super buffed Garrote to 3 targets.
Alacrity is unfortunately the best choice in that row for Outlaw and Assassination, haste is just too good of a stat and with our low stats early on it’s even more important. This goes against their philosophy that activated talents should always outperform passives that are easier to use. They need to make Alacrity baseline, the specs that use it feel bad with such low haste and we’re already in need of buffs so this would be an easy way to buff our class and give us more choice.
Venom Rush has had some different designs, it use to give you 15 maximum energy and your energy regen was increase by 5% for each target you had dotted up to 15%.
It’s strongest version was in Legion when it just made Venomous Wounds give you more energy, this was very strong when you could have multiple bleeds going getting huge amounts of energy back. Why they change it to Mutilate refunding 8 energy is idiotic and makes zero sense.
Exsanguinate is a very fun ability that took a little skill to properly use so it was the ideal talent design, we just don’t have enough stats to make it viable. Was so satisfying last patch getting your Exsanguinate ready, pressing it and watching your DPS sky rocket to the top of the meters.
For our final talent row they need to make Crimson Tempest a baseline ability and add something in it’s place, preferably a single target talent that would fit perfectly since Hidden Blades would be the AoE choice, Poison Bomb would be a mix of Single Target and AoE so having a purely ST focused talent there makes sense to me.
I dont think Crimson Tempest should be baseline. I think poison bomb does too low of damage for being random and rely on tank not moving, buff poison bomb. Biggest change needs to be that bleeds on Crimson Tempest need to trigger Venomous Wounds. That would make it an actual decision to opt for ST / passive or AoE on demand ability. We wouldnt go completely energy starved half way through an aoe pack. A pure single target replacing the FoK talent would be welcomed and make sense since Poison bomb is a hybrid.
That wont happen if you extend Rupture and Garrote.
If you Have Rupture on like 4 targets you basically have infinite Energy, even more if you have at least 3 Garrotes which is easy to do with Subterfuge
I’m talking large M+ pulls. If your opening up and applying garrote and rupture to three targets you just wasted entire MA buff and you did 5k dps compared to the mage/hunter/boomie’s 20k+ I do just fine on 3+ target cleave. Problem is after FoK + Crimson Tempest for the MA window your at zero energy with no bleed energy return and then it takes time to recoup. If that trash pack all had mobs with 1M hp then multi-bleed as much as possible and then Crimson Tempest as a replacement for Envenom. Trash just dies too quick and you have to either open up and cleave with bleeds or do FoK + Crimson Tempest until your out of energy. If your in stealth with full CP or Marked for Death you could open with one Crimson tempest and then roll bleeds and then vanish and take advantage of another MA buff but you cant do that every pull. If you have logs that show otherwise id love to see it. Edit: As much as i want Crimson Tempest to proc Venomous Wounds, they would have to dial down effectiveness, 8 target cap so 64 energy would be too much. It would have to be like 3 energy instead of 8 or some kind of DR on it, but it seems like a logical answer to the problem.
Master Assassin legendary, one of the most commonly used legendary by rogues in M+ because of all the restealth opportunities and things like guaranteed crit on weapons in NW.
I’m not going to debate that. Zoldyck has very limited value in M+. Go inspect rogues running higher than an 8. I use Zoldyck Insignia for raid but even on tyrannical weeks its not as good as Master Assassin legendary.
