I would’ve rather had Season 2 for the bigger Mortal Strikes, but the tier sets don’t matter when the spec itself just sucks. Godspeed, Arms lifers.
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Yeah, at the start I was trying to itemize for arms but I gave up.
But I play warrior, paladin, and dk. So I just bring my dk to raid and fill up my vault by tanking.
Bleed builds are trash
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LOL you actually trust blizzard an indie compnay will be able to do tunning correct for all class and all spec to their tier set especially some spec got major rework buff/nerf to their talent tree that no long interact or works with pervious season tier sets? You actually believe will spent a lot of effort and time on a shorten season that is meant to be a place holder and not spend the majority of their efforts in the new expansion?
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Oh wow look, a buff to the tier bonus.
Wild.
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s3 won tho vote though?
Those are just the NA votes. When you add in the EU votes tier 1 wins.
s3 fixed execute problem in aoe for arms.
It was honestly quite fun, and you still could run cleave if you wanted. The tier set only requirement was really only sudden death, but anything else you could do just about anything you wanted.
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I was pretty devastated to see S1 won. The bonus might pull numbers, but man… what a snooze fest.
That said, I LOVE that the S2 look won. Couldn’t be happier about that.
I’ll be asleep at the keyboard, but at least I’ll look good.
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Since this was recently necroed anyways, may as well say it now:
If one doesn’t want to be encouraged ever to hold Rend applications for a Sudden Death proc when there are many other competing GCDs to perform anyways… then sometimes not having that (to them, better) base gameplay changed… is preferable. Or, one may well prefer not to be pushed towards Thunderous Roar.
A lack of something new isn’t nothing. It the 95% you have regardless of tier, unvaried (or, if you dislike the change, untarnished) by the remaining 5% the most gameplay-affecting tier set could provide.
That’s not looking at throughput, just gameplay.
One could prefer to have neither S3’s gameplay implications nor the milder S2 ones, and therefore prefer S1. Or one could simply prefer S2’s feel and impact on portion of casts and damage over S3. Neither preference is objectively wrong.
I voted for S3, myself, because while there are some things I disliked about it, gameplay felt faintly better with it than without, more so than in S1 and S2. But I can see why opinions would differ.
The better question, to my mind, is why we couldn’t just have a “pick your poison” season, with S1, S2, S3, or a simple primary stat bonus of nearly equal value instead, and likewise give cumulative choices for each expansion hereafter.
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I disagree.
This is exactly right. It’s not " new vs not new"
It’s gameplay 1 vs 2 vs 3.
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Well, it didn’t fix them completely since the proc is only on sudden death, but it did make the situation significantly better.
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Arguably sudden death procs causing super Tclap makes the spec less interesting. Without super Tclap you have to decide between using a higher dps aoe button vs execute for priority damage but with super Tclap, sudden death execute is always the right play.
Now I think wow is too complex for the amount of depth of gameplay they’re providing so I like super Tclap and other bonuses that simplify the rotations but iirc you don’t.
What? I never disliked thundeclap rend spread.
I don’t think wow is too complex though, in fact my argument is almost never about complexity, i care about interactions and how fun the spec is to play. In other words gameplay.
Spreading rend and dots manually is generally not interesting at all.
In fact i really don’t care about complexity much, i only care about it to a degree, because some complexity is required in order to actually have a fun rotation, because interactions are what makes a spec interesting and fun to play, and interactions are complexity. But that doesn’t mean that every interaction is good some are badly made, or poorly implemented.
For the most part, I have to agree with Lenegis here that game isn’t overly complex in its gameplay, though partly for the same reasons Floweret mentioned: more stuff is not always more gameplay, let alone better gameplay, and I feel that’s how some builds, specs, and WoW in general can at times make themselves seem convoluted or muddled even while feeling rather plain.
To me, every build is, in essence, an integrated series of mini-games forming a whole that we want to be dynamic and make use of its parts in that different situations. Ideally, the whole may thereby/therefor orient itself differently around each of those component mini-games while on the whole making someone feel adaptive, responsive, tenacious, or what have you due to how your sort of dominant frames of reference are maintained, shift, or adapt.
The simplest way to see this is in how tightly merely following an APL without encounter- and time-specific contexts can approximate and/or match optimal play.
- (If that’s all it takes, chances are that I won’t care much for the build, as it will seem pre-solved, or at least too quickly learned.)
As for Rend/Blood and Thunder itself, I just wish redundant manual bleeds (as we already have a more interestingly constrained one in Deep Wounds) were a niche option instead of forced.
- I also would not mind Deep Wounds losing its damage modifier and instead functioning as a combination of Ignite and flat damage, provided we change Mastery (ideally into affecting the flat bleed and our damage modifiers from CS/WB, Avatar, Hurricane, etc., or just the chance and/or effectiveness of our bonus effects).
I will agree or disagree with all of this, Thunderclap/rend spreading, we have had it before as both Arms and Protection is fine as an option for Aoe combat. However basing a whole Tier set around almost 7 talent points worth of talents to make the set function was not worth it and shouldn’t be a thing going forward, no matter how engaging it might seem over passive bonuses.
This is why when it came to Arms was what was a tier set that didn’t impact talent choices for a build that didn’t force you to take to make your set function. I think people forget that whole concept that season 3 was to much cookie cutter of a build with no actual player choice to play. Seeing how Arms was in almost all S3 with our set when it came to groups and raids showed cased that S3 wasn’t ideal for almost the whole season.
I myself was torn between S1 or S2 only because it offered choice when it came to builds where we weren’t forced into talents like S3.
People talk about cookie cutter builds when the other build would net you maybe 3% less damage.
In other words, people overstate an issue in order to make a point.
Like how people say that no mover dh is “not viable” because you lose maybe 5% of your damage, and that’s sim damage, in actual real world scenarios i want to see you doing sim damage on momentum or inertia. It’s not gonna happen because you likely won’t have perfect uptime.
The reality was that s3, was barely restrictive, the only real requirement was just sudden death, but it didn’t overly favor even rend damage, you could easily run cleave if you wanted.
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I mean, you made 5 paragraphs of a nothing burger to try and justify choosing a different season. So I’m still gonna hold my opinion that there was really only one objectively correct answer in terms of moment to moment gameplay. One set gives you free dot refreshes, makes your SD proc (and by association MS) hit harder, and additonal free AoE. The other is a static bonus that has no influence on the rotation in anyway, besides muddying up the AoE Rotation with another button.
This was really just people wanting to be strong, versus actually reading what Blizzard said.
It would have been a nightmare to balance 117 different set bonuses (39 Specs with 3 Choices Each), and this is before we consider things like favored sets for PvP or M+ or Raid, and it doesn’t even begin to discuss things like combining two sets together.
To jump on this point, people who voted S1 now after S3’s buff post vote are probably kicking themselves as the thunderclaps post buff have been juicy.
Definitely going to feel a bit of a hit in flexibility going into S4 in not losing as much ST for AoE gains.
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Then use words correctly. What you’re describing —preferring gameplay option C over B or A— is very literally subjective.
That number is completely dwarfed already by our number of build choices and will soon be the involvement of our Hero Talents.
To be fair, I’d prefer no tier at all if we’d otherwise see a third or more of them force builds. Better a good base than none. But the last thing I want is to spend all this time on the ability to have diverse builds only to add yet more development time into tier sets just to waste those talents’ would-be degree of customization.
We already knew to vote based only on resultant gameplay. Some simply preferred for tier not to affect our build choices outside of, apparently, slightly favoring MS and Cleave.
Again, I voted for S3, but it is perfectly sound to prefer what gameplay would result from a retuned S1 or S2, or even from no tier at all.
If it’s enough to actually impact our performance, chances are that we’d then see baseline changes, so that the solution isn’t so reliant on Super Clap. Just as has happened in previous times.
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