Ele is a pretty annoying caster I’ll agree. I like when eke is more niche. I WISH ele was high skill floor and high skill cap. That way the mongos couldn’t just reroll to it
Dampener specs have utility based around disrupting an enemies kill vs assisting their own.
Examples: off heals, thunderstorm knockback, grounding, tremor, shear (shortest CD wizard interrupt). All of these spells are useful in keeping your team alive, but have much more limited usage offensively even if they can obviously be used at times to help you go offensive.
You disrupt the enemies kill, making your kill window possible.
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Just making stuff up now, come on.
Shoulda ended this thread with “arena sucks”
yeah l$d absolutely made prideful worse than bots and ddos did
but if you excluded l$d qs s14 and 15 were pretty good! but thats really just nostalgia
Still seems arbitrary to me, not arguing just trying to understand how having utility makes you have to wait til dampen to kill
The times where ele is overtuned historically L$D never had to wait to dampen or oom in the past and the same spells can keep your team offensive gaining you momentum when the opponents try to stop or your goes.
I’m jus trying to understand, so these specs just slow down the game til non dampening comps have exhausted their offense?
Right, those comps in the past won because they were able to disrupt enemy set ups and then did enough damage to win outside of set ups. The utility that Ele shamans have again isn’t based around killing it’s about keeping their team alive. Their offensive damage then allows you to punish opponents when they can’t get a set up. Even when the games ended fast it was still considered a dampener.
But yes these specs try to slow down the enemies win condition and win when it’s gone.
Does that really make them a dampening spec though? I mean yes the elemental play pattern generally revolves around disrupting enemy kill attempts before trying for their own, but that has to do with the fact that elemental needs so long to build up to its burst while most other classes can try for a burst attempt as soon as they get a good setup for it. Maybe I completely have the wrong of it, but my notion of a dampening spec is something like a warrior or a rogue or a rot spec that has sustained pressure which eventually you simply cannot heal through once dampening reaches a certain point. Ele to me would be the opposite of a dampening spec given that the spec has no sustain to speak of and its kills come through windows of CC and burst which are successful or fail due not to dampening but due to the availability of enemy defensive cooldowns.
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I mean generally people call specs that try to not lose as their win condition as dampeners. Rogues are the opposite of that description, they don’t try to win games by preventing their opponents win condition. No matter if ele has sustain or burst pressure as what causes to win games, it doesn’t score it’s wins by setting up kills its wins are by disrupting their opponent from killing.
my thoughts exactly
Ele has only has skyfury but in the past shaman have had stormlash and other offensive propensities to get kills.
My first 2200 was in TBC running 5s as 2345 and we still had (an even shorter) shear, tremor, grounding etc, and that was a really offensive comp due to lust.
being distruptive, in my mind, Just gains you momentum. Like in Fighting games how frames and move cancelling gets you more “turns” to be offensive.
but isn’t everyone not trying to lose?
Right now ele is very setup based around Skyfury, cross CCing to guarantee lasso and killing with 100 maelstrom, Master of the elements (lava shocked) earth shock > Stormkeeper bolt > shock > SK bolt
ele’s kill potential outside of keeper is below average because all they have is earth shock and that requires lava shock stacks
I think you’re misunderstanding what that means. Obviously everyone is trying not to lose, but the primary purpose of a spec like ele shaman is to be more of a goal keeper. Compare that to a mage, you’re trying to actually score a goal instead. You might make plays to stop yourself from losing as a mage, but your primary focus is scoring that goal. Ele’s primary focus is to be the goal keeper. As a secondary you can set up kill attempts when your opponent has no chance of scoring anymore.
It’s all about the primary focus of your win. As an ele shaman, you don’t always have to set up a clean kill to win, and while it does help the thing that matters mostly is just not dying to an enemies set up.
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I really am misunderstanding it.
Ele has 7-8k lava bursts and 5k lightning bolts,
base damage for earth shock is 14ish K.
WIth ideal haste levels they have ~22% haste for 1.6s casts but will be lacking in either crit or Vers at prob 13ish levels give or take 2%.
Their damage outside of CDs is fairly lack luster and flameshock tends to be their top damage ticking at like 1-2k damage.
Maelstrom generation is fairly slow outside of Fire ele or using totem mastery for 1M/s
If you don’t setup around stormkeeper and earth shock there’s no reason to have an ele on your team because their pressure is fairly bad outside of it.
If you have a rogue/ele/healer team is it suddenly a dampen comp jus because the ele has stops or “pauses”?
the ele is just gonna play like a mage except instead of polying to slow down the game til CDs are up the ele is off healing and toteming.
See why it seems arbitrary to call an ele a goal keeper?
Dampen comps have always made sense that they win by attrition via sustained pressure until healing is a non factor and the enemy dies from having their resources exhausted
Edit: the way you’re describing “goal keeper” just makes it sound like the spec has inferior CDs to go aggressive as often so they’re on their hind foot until they can have a turn to play because of the kit.
Thats just what
Sounds like to me.
You could play Resto shaman and have all the distruption ele has except for tstorm and frost shock, but can have a 10s cd hex and aoe root totem instead.
If you’re using lasso jus to stop goes then idk man, that aint it.
Please stop arguing with Dillon. He clearly explained this multiple times. You don’t know Ele or arena comps better than he does. Just learn, say thanks, and move on.
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bro wtf is going on with your eyes
I didn’t say that at all. Nor does he play ele
it still doens’t make any real sense, trying to live cus you have weaker offensives makes you a dampen spec?
I’m not the only one confused by it either, but thanks for the help
but really dampen traditionally meant just that, comps that could survive into dampening while winning thru attrition/long games that were guaranteed.
dampen wasn’t a term to describe ele and it has all the same tools he mentioned since its inception and dampening is a later mechanic so asking for a good explanation isn’t arguing
It’s not just weaker offensives. It’s Mage as a whole has a better kit for a set ups. They have a no cd magical CC which means most dps have no way to dispel it from a healer, they have a long cd long lockout interrupt, they have big burst, etc. I mean it’s generally not uncommon to see a mage team win while they do like half the overall damage of an enemy team where that’s generally not the case for a “dampener” comp that’s relying on doing good consistent damage for the entire match.
Anyway like I said Dillon has explained this thoroughly multiple times now and you are just getting hung up on little details trying to find a technicality to show he was wrong on something. He already said it’s not just 100% one way or the other, but just a primary goal for each comp.
I think it makes all of us normies on the forums look bad when someone like Dillon posts and tries to help only to have someone repeatedly argue with them as if they know better. It’s be like Lebron James volunteer coaching for a kids basketball team and a parent arguing with him about fundamentals he’s teaching them. All of the other parents would just be embarrassed and be like “stop please”.
if ur win condition is not dying until you eventually kill something
ie typically thunder (ele/arms) l$d (ele/aff)
ur a dampener
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Aight ima jus shut up and color cus the more popular and informed posters say so
When literally all I’m saying is ele’s consistent damage is sub par that they actually do have to set up around lava shock and sk.
This definition of Dampeners is vague and obviously i’m not the only one confused about it.
“eventually killing something” when you have to wait for maelstrom, lava shock stacks and SK coordinating with partners so that the damage sticks etc sounds like setting up to me but what do I kno lol
pretty sure the term dampener just stuck because it’s literally how all of those ele comps (in mop when dampening was introduced) won games. with eventual unhealable instant dmg with soft goes on who ever was in the open
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Any tips on beating Feral/Hunter/X as M/L/Hpal? Imp is only able to dispel entangling roots during trap making it useless. Druid isn’t really a viable kill target due to being able to shapeshift roots and movement speed, and hunter can stop lots of goes with FD and usually only comes out during burst windows.
Should Pally only use freedom during roots so I can still use imp dispel?