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Iâm always ready for a Belgian waffle.
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I think I love you!
lol
SoâŠPandaria wasnât a sovereign land, and the Alliance can just barge in and âfixâ things whether theyâre wanted or not?
Because Iâm fairly sure the respectful thing to do is offer the warning, offer the assistance, and then accept the answer youâre given, when youâre in someone elseâs home.
I could really go for some french toast. Get some sausage in there, some orange juiceâŠ
Baine has never uttered the word Teldrassil.
Thrall wasnât even around or heard what happened and he never addresed any of the events. He was just using them as an example why neither faction can get along.
Not a single Horde character has warned the Horde player about keeping civilian casualties to a minimum or retaining their morality.
You see that WAY more often than not.
And yet you canât signal out a single time the Horde was actually morally conflicted.
When he says he wants the Horde to gift back the ruins they destroyed with zero repercussions on screen? Hell yeah he is a Horde apologist.
He basically wanted a SoO repeat.
Why does that matter when he is willing to defy Sylvanas to deliver Derek Proudmoore to Jaina? When he openly admits that he sees a sickness in the Horde, that it is wrong for us to wage war while Azeroth dies. Just because he never says the word âTeldrassilâ doesnât mean he isnât thinking about it or what the Horde has done and what it has cost both sides.
Your splitting hairs. Thrall was clearly reaching out to Jaina, thanking her for her help and admitting how much guilt he feels that he and the Horde both have for the war and what has happened. If thatâs not thinking about the Alliance then Iâm not sure what you would consider it to be.
Have you played every single Horde questline in BFA? I thought not.
Baine actively sends the PC to reign Forsaken soldiers from wiping out the survivors of the Alliance fleet that Talanji destroyed. He actively asks us to make sure that they do not go beyond the bounds of honor.
As to a Horde character warning the PC to keep civilian casualties to a minimum, that never comes up because the Horde PC is never sent specifically to kill civilians. We arenât involved at all in Brennadam, and the quests that send us into Boralus have us specifically targeting soldiers and other military objectives. Civilians never come into it for the Horde PC.
Maybe in Alliance side questing. I wouldnât know about that since I donât do much Alliance side questing. Could never get a character higher than level 80, and that guy was a DK.
I donât need to, Spuddyc already did WAY at the start of this thread.
I may not like the guy personally but he did bring up the best example of Horde PCâs feeling morally conflicted.
An example you seem more than willing to ignore.
Why is that?
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Iâm also not sure how it escaped me, but even the latest in-game cinematic shows basically half the Hordes line up turning against Sylvanas and Thrall reflecting on his failures. He himself mentions Teldrassil. âNow Thunderbluff will burn, just like Teldrassil.â
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Because he did it to save a Forsaken. Nothing else.
None of that has anything to do with Baine being shocked and horrified that the new Horde is the same as the demon blood addled one.
Nothing is explicitly stated which again could be interpreted in any number of ways.
An unfortunate war =/= intentional mass execution of civilian prisoners.
Read the examples I posted in the OP.
Hence the whole point of this thread. You clearly have and yet canât produce anything equivalent to what the Alliance has when it comes to these questions
Can you link this?
A orc childâs musings.
An older Orcâs unapologetic matter a fact responses.
A God of War reference.
Because it is laughably weak.
Especially compared to what the Alliance player deals with on a daily basis.
Bull. He did it as a peace offering and as a way to do something right by the Alliance to make up for the dishonor he felt the Horde had done them. Try to look past your own biases to see his good intentions, as Jaina did.
Baine canât be shocked and horrified about something that he doesnât believe. He says himself that he believes the Horde has a sickness in it, not that itâs beyond redemption.
Youâre the one âinterpretingâ the things he says in a ânumber of waysâ when it is clear from even the Alliance version of the quest chain that Baine is remorseful.
Again, so what? Just because he isnât using the words you want him to that doesnât mean that the meaning isnât there. Thrall is clearly close to being broken over his guilt for what happened in Theramore, with Garrosh, and now with Teldrassil. If you canât see that then you are blind.
All you seem to want is for Horde characters to say they are irredeemably evil and all deserve to die. Thatâs not going to happen.
I just did in my last post. Get your eyes examined.
A quibble.
A niggle.
An irrelevance.
Youâre still wrong.
Well boohoo, sorry you donât like it but it does prove you dead wrong.
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And yet. All he could talk about was how inhumane her treatment of Derek was. A single Forsaken.
No word on Teldrassil.
No word on Brennendam.
No word on Undercity.
Pretty much nothing. All he cared about was helping a new forsaken character.
So he justifies what the Horde has done? Wonderful.
Remorseful about what specifically? Aw shucks this war sucks?
Or maybe you are incredibly generous with even the most minimal of gestures as hail mary vindication confirmations.
No actually for once I actually wanted to see the evidence about this morally decent Horde and yet its posters have presented minuscule bread.
Thatâs the strongest point you have presented for your case.
Not within the context I ainât.
I guess on the same token I can say boohoo to you for Sylvanasâ actions, she being supported by the people. So I guess you were wrong?
I was going to give a measured response until I saw this. Then I stopped.
Someone clearly skipped and/or didnât do their questing. This statement alone tells me what I need to know. I know for a fact you didnât come in here with an open mind. You came and posted this topic to bait.
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Both the Horde and the Alliance Lack self awareness. The Horde lacks it because they simply donât recognise they have done this dance before and it ended badly. Regardless of whether it is evil on not is the question, Why arenât they instantly aware that Sylvanas is leading them down the same path Garrosh did?
The Alliance isnât self aware as they literally stormed the horde capital to the throne room and decided to let the horde Live with one ultimatium âif you fight without Honor we will end youâ, yet that is forgotten. We had the whole warcrimes novel where we essentially put the Horde on trial for all their past deeds and they were let off because they were expected to change at the end of that.
However the Writers Basically ignore all that context and wrote the Horde as bad guys again and the alliance as the plucky forgiving good guys. its why BFA is the stupidest expansion to come out yet as the story premise makes no sense based on the established lore.
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This is why people didnât take you seriously when you said you came here with an open mind. You didnât make this thread to try and understand other points of view; you came here to reinforce the views you already have by twisting, spinning, or just outright ignoring any points people make. Even when Spuddyc gave you exactly what you asked for, you made some feeble excuse for why it doesnât count. Nothing ever counts. Thatâs the opposite of open-mindedness.
I wonder if the domain âgodhateshordeâ is available. You should register it.
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Strangely, I think I have realize WHY Blizzard âlikesâ writing Horde. Its not the internal drama, the diverse cultures, the attempts at re-invention/redemption, its that they like using the Horde a plot-device. The Horde merely is a proactive force to move the plot THEY want to write along; while the Alliance is a reactive force meant to interact with that plot. This gives the Horde Faction the illusion of agency (while it steals agency away from the Alliance), but its still just an illusion.
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Thatâs literally what Baine says. Word for word.
âYou raised him a forsaken, but you planned to deny him his free will. To violate his mind.â
He CLEARLY states that is his SOLE reason to return Derek Proudmoore to his family.
Nothing about Teldrassil, nothing about Brennedam, nothing about War of Thorns⊠literally nothing.
So I guess Baine considers none of those events depraved enough for him to make a move.
You want me to openly deny what is happening in the video above?
There are certain posters that are lying and changing what is categorically not true. Open mind does not mean I will drink the koolaid, it means when he posts about Baine telling the player to stop the forsaken killing Forsaken then I wonât just ignore it or dismiss it as noncanon.
The orc child was not a participant in War of Thorns.
He is one meme NPC reference.
No faction leaders.
No soldier.
One child civilian who heard something off hand and⊠thats it?
That is the proof that the Horde is conflicted and the âGood Hordeâ theory is proven right?
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You clearly didnât pay attention or you simply didnât care as it didnât line up with your thinking. I wonât waste typing it out for you. It would be a pointless endeavor.
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It is indeed a pointless endeavor.
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I literally linked the video of the encounter and quoted it to you.
I think its you who simply doesnât care and is now upset because the video in plain english doesnât line up with YOUR set of thinking.
Baine did not make the gesture for any other reason than to protect a fellow forsaken (horde) from Sylvanasâ grasp.
Because thatâs what he tells you⊠in plain english.
When you argue with facts? Sure.
I honestly donât know why any of you try to debate with this person anymore. No amount of debate or proof or anything of the like is going to dissuade them from their opinion.
And continuing to try is the very definition of insanity.
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