they actually look like little rascals.
I agree - but I am out of likes 
. Expect a like storm from your posts in this thread when I can.
Even Sylvanas seems to have some sort of care for people. In BtS, she laments both Voljinās and Varianās deaths- in her mind, where she has no reason to lie.
Sylvanas reminds me of a preoccupied Aunt taking care of her nephews and nieces, instead of the loving mother people expect from a female leader.
Or like a Step Mother who cares about the kids ā¦ but would rather be doing something else.
6 Likes
Virtually everyone goes to bead at night considering themselves a hero, feeling that whatever actions they tookā¦ were justified. Whether itās killing an enemy soldier, shooting a terrorist, or a student at Kent State. In each of those instances, people acted against what they considered a serious threat to their society.
Itās not as if the Night Elves hadnāt been enemies of the Hordeā¦ they have pretty much since they landed on Kalimdor. Having had temporary trade agreements doesnāt really change that. (Fun fact: England and France continued to trade with each other during the Hundred Years War)
1 Like
I am trying to keep the discussion focused. Otherwise we relapse to the same age old talking points. That get repeated here over and over in a never ending circle that goes nowhere.
I already talked about this. Lets use WC3 as an example, Thrall took the Trolls and Tauren under his new Horde because they needed the Orcs help but he needed their support as well against these unknown enemies threatening his new Horde.
I understand terminologies are interchangeable, and we can brush almost anyone with the brush of āthe othersā but the context is clear.
Lets try to categorize them.
We have others that have no chance in hell that they would join the Hordeās side. Would the Horde still be altruistic towards them? Or is that reserved for potential allies?
Nightborne and Hightmountain were helped in the fight against Legion.
Maghar were helped during WoD though much of the original people were probably dead by the time Eitrigg arrived which then became a rescue mission but for the sole purpose of recruiting them into the Horde armies.
But all of this is besides the point. There is nothing wrong with the Horde finding allies in some big fight and then recruiting them afterwards. But thatās not the topic here. We are getting off topic.
The question plainly asked is why is the Alliance so concerned with Horde wellfare in the middle of a war but the Horde seemingly isnāt in comparison?
The Alliance is the biggest neighbour in Hordeās neighborhood.
Especially the Orc and Night Elf relationships in northern Kalimdor.
This topic is addressing a very specific theory on the Horde. A theory that believes Sylvanas, Garrosh and others like them donāt represent the Horde. And that the Horde is just as moral as the Alliance is.
This thread aims to address that idea.
Thatās what we are talking about.
If you want to talk about Hordeās good points in fighting an enemy while finding a way to make mutual enemies of that enemy their long standing allies or new Horde members is another topic entirely. We can talk about it elsewhere but not here.
2 Likes
Thatās largely past tense. The Night Elves have been removed as a factor in Kalimdor. There are still some around. but they are no longer a serious factor in Ashenvale. What the Horde has taken there, theyāre going to keep, and they may very well expand.
1 Like
Do they? I mean thereās a difference between considering yourself the protagonist and considering yourself a hero. People with low self esteem definitely donāt consider themselves heroes, same with the genuinely humble. Or even those who recognise theyāre bad people.
2 Likes
Iām pretty much talking about the Archie Bunker Average Joe, not the outliers.
It is EXTREMELY rare for anyone to self-identify as a villain.
I donāt believe you.
16 Likes
You saw the topic and what I asked.
If we simplify that it would beā¦
Where are the Horde characters horrified about Teldrassil (disagreeing with Sylvanas) and where are the Horde NPCs telling the player to becareful of civilians?
Alliance has both of these things.
Where are the Horde equivalents if both factions are similar in ideology?
Its not about being villain, you saw my examples, it is about being self conflicted.
Whatās interesting although there is no evidence of Horde being remorseful neither is there too strong of an evidence of them being staunchly in support of it eitherā¦ except the forsaken of course.
But the theme of those guys in this expansion seems to be āhate all living things that are not Hordeā
Its like Blizzard leaving it ambiguous until they decide which side the majority of the Horde falls towards.
You are purposefully ignoring lore that contradicts any points you make.
And I am addressing how this theory is disproven by lore.
I am providing lore based examples of the Horde caring about āothersā who were not in the Horde at the time. And lore based examples of how Sylvanas is representing the Hordeās opinions. Even Lorthemar and the rebels concede she has the support of the people.
You can ignore plot points that disprove your head canon - but when you post it on a public forum, you can expect others to point it out.
9 Likes
Sighā¦ fine what am I ignoring?
I already addressed those pointsā¦
Except you arenāt addressing it. You are changing the topic to something I never made any claims towards. And now you and I are going to debate for the next 50 posts going back and forth about how you are addressing the points and me saying that you dont.
Whoopie thats fun aināt it?
Saurfang tells you to evacuate night elf civilians who are still in Lorādanel. There is also the traveling warrior and son I already linked up above. Those are the two examples that come to mind. When you first go to Nazājatar the gilgoblin says something like āwe can tell you arenāt the bad guysā and Lorthremar replies āthere are some who would disagreeā, showing a level of self awareness.
4 Likes
Oh?
After this claim, I listed examples of the Horde caring about āothersā to the point where those same āothersā later join the Horde. The Maghar, the Highmountain, the Nightborn.
That is exactly the point. You ignore when the Horde cares about others to claim the Horde does not care about others.
You make statements and than deny making them. At least you recognize it.
4 Likes
Could you link the quest/event? I did not play the Horde side of it.
That is something I missed entirely.
So is Lorthemar commenting about how he agrees with that view or just being snarky about the obvious war going on on the surface?
Ambiguous but my money is on snarky.
1 Like
holyā¦ guys not everyone at once.
See ā¦ thatās the weird thing. How much stock can we put into the War Table missions? Just how reinforced IS the Horde in Ashenvale and the Allianceās power in Silverpine? I get that there are guerrilla wars and holdouts happening in both regions, but its a big frustrating murky area.
For example, just looking at Darkshore the Horde should be MASSIVELY entrenched in Ashenvale (it is the single most important zone to hold in ALL of Northern Kalimdor), but the Horde has almost no real interaction with the zone since the War of Thornes (not even really in the table missions).
As for Silverpine, securing it completely pretty much secures the Alliance reclaiming Gilneas; Tirisfal; Hillsbrad; Alterac; and Arathi (and the Plaguelands to the North are almost garaunteed to fall under their control by that point. The BEs are unlikely to risk themselves holding the line past Ghostlands should SP fall completely into the Allianceās hands). So whats goin on there?
1 Like
I did respond to this point. I guess you disagree with my conclusion of it. Why is that?
You said it was beside the point. However, It is exactly the point.
The Horde cares about āothersā to the point that sometimes those āothersā have later joined the Horde.
So your theory that the Horde does not care about āothersā is disproven by lore.
5 Likes
I raised the point that one Other is different than the Other.
Its a general term that can be applied in various situations but the intent and setting of my OP was explicit.
Was I wrong to differentiate your interpretation of Other with mine? If so why?
i think there is a semantic problem here so you guys should define care or else will be going in circles.
1 Like