Are Wargames here to stay?

Picking the low-hanging fruit tonight, eh Kaivax? Meanwhile Netherwind is burning for the last week with no word on what might be done to help it.


Who is this “#nochange hivemind” that so many goofballs keep referring to?

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The people who do the meme #nochange thing on any post suggesting a change. They will not argue any point other than “it was not in vanilla”. They don’t think, they can’t be reasoned with. They Just wish it were 2006 again.

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Most often it is a retail troll account doing so.


Not quite.

I just want what I asked for all these years and what was promised by Blizzard. Unlike so many people, apparently, I actually wanted vanilla.

“World of Warcraft Classic is a faithful recreation of the original World of Warcraft.”

Oh, and…

No changes.


I’m with you, let’s ride this dumpster fire straight into the ground, together.

Blizzard eventually realized that even they could not deliver on it. Heck they may have planned this all a long.


Depends on who you ask.

If you ask the #nochanges folk, they’re the ones who are constantly trying to hold the line against all kinds of non-vanilla changes that continue to be suggested even now that we have the game to play. Class balance is constantly coming up, and not as “this is bugged and not how it was in vanilla”. An in-game dungeon group finder still gets periodic threads. Complaints about the PvP honor system are well up there. Some of the more trollishly absurd are things like transmog and dual spec.

If you asking the people who want changes, who aren’t happy with WOW Classic as-is, then #nochanges is a group of mindless drones who see any request they make and reply #nochanges.

If you want to really dig deeper, though, take a look at posting histories. See what kinds of things people say #nochanges too, and which people tend to post a lot of “just make this change I think would make it better”.


And then there’s the people who want to uphold the spirit of Vanilla and the overall Vanilla experience. They realize that changes don’t have to upset that spirit. In fact, no changes might actually be against that spirit.

So much has changed in 15 years that a faithful recreation is impossible. You get knowledge of exactly what the drops are, exactly what materials will be needed for the war effort, optimal paths and best talents, ways to overfarm everything.

Vanilla was about discovery and banding together. Classic has been about min-maxing everything to the nth degree and telling everyone else how to play. A game with more mystery and discovery would have been far more faithful.


The “spirit” of vanilla is nebulous nonsense upon which no two individuals wholly agree. The experiences of players back in vanilla are entirely subjective and literally impossible to recreate, both because the players have changed in a way that cannot be undone and because every player’s experience was unique to them.

For example, my experience in vanilla was that you had to be a tank as a Warrior or you didn’t get a group. The objective reality of vanilla is that with proper gameplay and min/maxing, Warriors are the best DPS class in the game by a considerable margin. Should we nerf Warriors to be worthless at DPS to recreate my experience, or do we preserve the game’s authenticity and allow players to adapt to new knowledge?

As for the “spirit,” I would think Alliance vs Horde is a pretty strong part of the spirit of vanilla. Allowing Alliance to fight other Alliance in battlegrounds goes pretty strongly against anyone’s definition of “the spirit of vanilla,” I would think. I guess I would be wrong, though.


No, you wouldn’t be wrong - if this was done the exact same as queueing in-game for a BG and earned the same rewards (rep, honor, rank). It’s not. It’s unrated, unranked. It won’t pull in players not in those groups from the BG queue.

It’s basically a completely discrete (separate) instance that will provide an option for those PvP players who want to battle it out for the fun of it, and nothing more. The BG name sets the map / objectives, and otherwise is unrelated to the BGs everyone else is playing.

A large PvP guild could do practice skirmishes against each other, for example. They make two teams, choose War Games and the BG, and in they go to compete against each other. When they finish, that’s it. They had fun, maybe they worked out some strategies, but it has zero other impact on the Azeroth of WOW Classic.

EDIT: Okay, minor clarification is that could have the impact of coordinated teams practicing and getting better, then coming out and applying that as premades. (And, funny thought, maybe we’d see Horde trying to prove that AV isn’t biased toward them / or see some find themselves on that side of the map and realizing there is a bias.)

Strange. Our raids in Vanilla had plenty of warriors dpsing them. For dungeons, yeah you needed to tank. You still do today in classic for the most part, for loot competition reasons. Not many tank wars are willing to accept a dps war into the group. The dps wars can pull on their big boy pants and tank a dungeon if they want a group.


Ok, this is awesome many loves!

Not particularly.

So remind me what patch in Vanilla Wargames were introduced?

Oh wait, they were never in Vanilla. . .

Please stop changing WoW Classic. Every time you do it just gives the #somechanges people more ammunition.


Imagine players who aren’t you, in guilds you’re not in, on a server you’re not even on … using WarGames to have a good time. And there’s nothing you can do about it. #NOTMYVANILLA


Exactly. The idea was recreating the spirit of vanilla, their stated goal, and changing as little as necessary to achieve that goal.

The way games are played has changed substantially since 2004.

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Update the characters models while your at it

So it’s basically just a skirmish right? No honor/rep/marks, right?

Which helps prove my point. Everyone’s experience was different. There is no universally defined “spirit” of vanilla, nor could we all agree on what exactly “the spirit of vanilla” encompasses.

I think it’s far more feasible to recreate the game accurately than to try and weigh which experiences were more valid and change the game to better emulate them.