“I tank in ret at this level and haven’t lost aggro yet (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/emerald-dream/Aerayna leveled from 20-29 exclusively in dungeons). Only two people have even mentioned it, and it wasn’t because anything was going wrong they just noticed when the dungeon loaded, so I blamed it on a bug and we kept rolling through ”
Tanking low-level dungeons in off-spec doesn’t seem to make a bit of difference. As mentioned by many already, “tanks” don’t even get their their AOE threat generators until much later so I’m not sure what I’d gain by switching. A prot pally said that he “missed AOE threat” during Shattered Balls last night, so maybe they don’t even have it anymore at all let alone low levels, or maybe he didn’t have any because he was 70 instead of 120 (not sure if we lose our 70+ abilities during TW now that I think about it), or didn’t dig deep enough to find it in his spell book.
Whatever the reasoning, myself and the other mage simply adapted our dps to his threat generation.
I don’t have any problems with threat unless someone’s going ham on one or two mobs that I haven’t done anything to but cleave, but a quick taunt takes care of that.
Sounds to me like OP’s tank needs a lesson in how to play their toon. As long as nobody’s doing more than 350% of the tank’s DPS to a mob, they shouldn’t be losing threat. If a tank can’t manage to do even 40% of the top DPS’s damage through the course of a fight, they’re either doing something wrong or you popped a ton of CDs on trash.
EDIT: Just saw this was for low levels. Yeah, if you’re having problems at low levels just chill out and wait a few seconds. You’re not running M+. There’s no timer, so relax. If you’re that worried about leveling quickly go buy a boost.
Hmm, no threat generators? My low level paladin that I used for the couple days still had Hammer of the Righteous, Avenger’s Shield and Consecrate. I also had Shield of the Righteous and they buffed it to hit everything in front of the Paladin. He was level 36 and now raised to 40. I did change the Hammer to Blessed Hammer. I did not have problems holding the groups as Prot.
For the higher levels, most of the rotation feels the same as it did in Legion (aside from Shield of the Righteous being an AoE now). They just had the threat nerf as well as a couple cooldowns added to the GCD. Light of the Protector is one and I think others said Avenging Wrath is another. Doesn’t feel as bad as Warriors have it with Ignore Pain. Still gets noticed a bit with Light of the Protector, but I tend to have a few waiting periods to freely use it with only Avenger’s Shield resetting from the mass AoE pulls.
As for the Timewalking, we get to keep our spells we earn all the way to 120. In fact, I was able to almost double my effective self heals on my Warrior with Legion Legendaries and particular Azerite Traits. The level down scaling re-activates our Legendaries.
For missing spells, a couple that come to mind would be Seal of Truth and Seal of Righteousness.
yeah…I was 38 or so when I started the thread. Now 54 I think and its still occuring, though less often. Just happened a few times today. Very erratic. Cant seem to find any rhyme or reason to it.
It will happen on one mob, then I can do exactly the same thing on the next and it wont.
Really odd
There is a reason. In fact, there are multiple possible reasons:
The tank is missing key rotational buttons at lower levels. Most rotations are fleshed out by 40-50, including rank 2 passive benefits to some abilities.
They’re using incorrect or subpar talent choices, leading to lower damage output (and thus threat). Leveling dungeons are for learning your spec and role, and if they care to play that toon at max level they’ll figure it out eventually.
They’ve got too much downtime. Not pushing buttons is a serious problem for most specs, especially if you’ve got things you could be pushing.
You’re not giving them enough time to establish threat. Your spells could be landing before they get an attack off. This could also tie into my previous point about the tank having too much downtime. Either way, this is something you can control.
You’re not hitting the tank’s primary target. Having target of target enabled in your UI is important. Sure, AoE down the rest of the pack, but your primary target should be the same thing your tank’s hitting. Again, this is something you yourself can control.
You’re pulling for the tank. Unless they ask you to, or unless you know the tank can handle it, don’t do it and let them do their job if you want to live. Teamwork is still a thing. Remember, the “I” in “team” is found in the a-hole.
I have noticed that, at least up to my level… Shadow Priest’s threat seems off. Both my husband and myself have seen this, and I have seen it with other Shadow Priests I’ve partied with. Even when not the #1 DPS they will pull tons of threat.
How I mitigate this:
-Keep bubble up as often as possible, just in case.
-Keep Shadow Mend on an easy to access button
-Use Fade whenever possible
-Do not just keep damaging the same target. Even if you are channeling Mind Sear, switch targets when you go to channel again.
-And of course, when you do get threat, drag it to the tank.
On the flip side, I have two tanks I’m leveling. At your level they should have the tools to keep threat. However, I have seen tanks do some ignorant things such as pulling with taunt or using the immune to all damage paladin bubble, which drops threat.
If you see these things, don’t be afraid to -politely- say something. If they’re pulling with taunt, suggest that they pull with an ability or charge in, so that they will generate more initial threat and have taunt when they need it. If you see a paladin use a bubble and threat then goes everywhere, inform them that the bubble drops threat. (It’s been that way since BC but with previous threat generation you could get away with using it). Most of the time if you’re polite and informative, they will appreciate it.
A side note for tanks, before you have all your AoEs… switch through targets between AoE cooldowns and you won’t have very many threat issues at all.
Get a threatmeter and use it. Your job is to do as much DPS as the tank can handle. Thats it, not one dps point more. If you go over his threat you put the group in peril of a wipe. Do your job properly.
Slightly off-topic but they’re not really nerfing threat directly.
It was mentioned that the taunt change is merely a tooltip adjustment - however, they might adjust (read slight nerf) the additional threat generated during the taunt duration.
I just started prot pally tanking again - first time since WotLK and I have to tell say that trying to hold aggro has been a real pita. The mobs run away and I’m hard put to bring them to heel. I’m beginning to think that no matter how badly I missed it (tanking) I might just have to give it up.
Nice to see that someone else is actually paying attention to it. Gets kinda tiresome in here having to deal with the the sorts who think they know everything and seem to assume everyone else is either liars or incompetent.
Ive leveled so many character to 60 in dungeons by now that Ive lost count. I end up deleting most of them because of the realm limit since I only play on two.
Ive tried to play all of the classes enough to have some familiarity with them, but priest isnt one that Id really gone nuts with until this one. Having leveled all the other classes to 60 or so at different points, is why I think I even noticed something was different about SPriest.
-as far as defenses, I dont keep the bubble up 100%, but its on my defensive keys (asdf) just below my main offensive (qwer) so I can drop down and fire it off quickly enough when needed, as is mend. Hasnt been a problem getting it up, and it I see that something is heading my way Ive generally had plenty of time to get it up before getting hit. The problem is more the numbers of whats hitting me. It gets really bad at times when the tank is trying to get aggro back and I can see in my combat log there that the healer has me on life support while Im trying to keep myself healed and running thru the tank, using fade (which is often a joke anyway as Im seeing when a mob hits).
I havent been dying nearly as much as before so it seems like something is changing as Ive been leveling up.
I figure some of it is tanks not having their toolkit at times and maybe at times its an inexperienced tank. But after running so many dungeons with so many different players and so many classes, Im not stupid or blind enough not to see that there is something funky going on with at least those two spells where threat is concerned.
As far as saying something to the tank. I generally just keep my mouth shut unless the guy is clearly doing something stupid very intentionally. Such as the one who caused a wipe, then when he was rezzed proceeded to repeat the stupidity, at which point I told him “next time dont jump the (profanity here) wall”.
There are two dungeons runs where some seem to love to cut corners and all it does is leave multiple mobs of trash that religiously come charging in while youre fighting the boss.
Beyond me why they do it the first time, let alone after we wipe and have to run back end up doing it the second time.
I generally just pull off the run at some point.
The problem I usually run into with tanks is IF they are doing poorly they seem to get a real attitude if you say something. Im too reactive. Its best for me to just keep the comments to myself and pull out if someone else doesnt say anything (they generally do).
Thanks for the input. Nice to have a civil exchange in here from time to time.
If this is the only thing they are doing to nerf the tank threat, it should be alright on my end. I didn’t needed the taunt threat increase for the 5 mans anyhow. However, that part wasn’t for the 5 mans. It was added in specifically for raids with 2 tanks to help ease the taunt swap transition. Some tanks were way more geared than their co- tank, so they had to sit on their hand when a swap was needed. I guess we will have to see if it causes problems with taunt swaps.
If you Fade and they’re still coming for you, that means that no one else has threat AT ALL. Unless someone used their own threat elimination mechanism, that means you’re hitting stuff that no one else has touched. Even the healer doesn’t get threat from healing someone who isn’t on the threat table at all.
As others have sugested, you can’t figure out what’s really going on without something like Omen. The stock UI only shows your relative threat on a mob compared to the next highest on the table.
Find a tank willing to experiment, tank grabs threat on a pack, and you then throw in one Mind Sear. Then look at your threat on each mob individually through Omen and see how much threat that one Mind Sear did. Then throw in a Mind Blast, see how much that does on the one mob vs the rest. Do the same thing with Void Eruption.
You need to quantify it, not just guess - and you need to lose the attitude if you want people to take you seriously.
yeah…I just ran a dungeon and a player seemed to be REALLY familiar with SPriest.
He said its definitely Mind Sear. Every time I used MS it just stripped the aggro right off the tank. I stopped using it entirely and the rest of the run went pretty well.
The guy was trying to explain why its happening but Im clueless.
As far as my attitude, I guess you missed the part where I started off REALLY cordial and was basically called liar.
So its a little hard to take your own post seriously if its going to omit such a crucial detail
I know this is a latent response but mind sear is aoe. If the tank hasn’t generated enough threat on his mobs they arent targeting you will pull them. I know it blows having to pay THAT close of attention but at that level I wouldnt expect much at all from a tank, theyre still learning their class and abilities. Hope youre enjoying priesthood.
This is an issue with the aggro nerf, I noticed when I started leveling a ret pally. I kept getting aggro and died a lot. I found out about the nerf and started to slow down my rotation, off heal cleanse and would still aggro. ive seen healers aggro from healing and tanks getting mad at hunters and there isn’t even pet aggro in dngs. ive even tested waiting half a minute into a pull to even attack and when I did I just auto attacked and still would aggro. I keep hearing its your gear or its the tanks fault hes just crappy. you just attack the mob before the tank pulls aggro. how about listening and at least have some one in the blizz team check it out them selves before writing this off. I started another toon same thing. not just me but everyone in the group getting aggo and wipping the group. why are ppl. being so dismissive at an obvious problem and trolling someone because they dare say something is wrong with tank aggro. even in timewalking where I went with a guild was lvl 85 the rest 120s the tank was losing agrro ive done over a thousand dungeons and all the tanks could not hold aggro. All of them are just poor at it and all I have to do is auto attack and pull agrro. some of us would enjoy completing a dungeon without wiping several times hell maybe use some of our rotation for being punished for it ive noticed its more so on using an aoe damage spell. maybe someone could just look into it. not everyone who starts playing wow is pro overnight at tanking and instead of just saying they suck maybe let them learn and enjoy a spec hell maybe even enjoy the game you’ve been playing all these years. that subscribe and help keep the game going. I love for new people come and learn to play the game I love and encourage them to get better. my experience from when I first started the game was being told I should quit cause I suck or just get kicked cussed out. why? because I was brand new to the game? is that it? if your not a pro the day you start your just scum and wont ever get better at playing a game and so what if they don’t they can still play and love a game that should be shared with everyone.
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