Nothing needs to be changed except deathmark can be also apply with garrote from stealth on target just like ambush. So M+ players can go to their usual opener rotation instead of ambush which feels awkward.
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yes come step on that hot consecration! 
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And how, pray tell, would this function with those who select subterfuge?
Again, having it on garrote doesn’t make any sense. You’re making a big deal out of one GCD to apply it with ambush, yet failing to realize garrote can’t possibly work unless you remove subterfuge.
Honestly BAFFLED you think nothing needs changed, when the ONE single problem with deathmark is that you can get thrown out of the loop where you can’t engage with it without vanishing or restealthing again. THAT is deathstalkers main issue.
Dude you are making it complicated for yourself. They can program it to apply to your target only. And since it only applies to one target at a time, subterfuge would not affect it. You are scrambling this all up in your own mind just to be contrarian.
They need to make it apply on either ambush or garrote out of stealth. I don’t know why this is confusing for you.
There can be more than one problem for an ability.
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Yea, I don’t know why they can’t just bolt it onto Envenom and call it a day.
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it’s confusing you
what do you do when you need to tab target your garrotes?
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have it reapply - like how sub is just swimming in re-applications with shadow dance.
That beats how clunky it is now, and “messing up” and losing it on Silken Court - or some other place (or having to target the mob without it at times, for a while). The whole Deathstalker tree just feels terrible to play as sin.
I mean of all the hero trees, Deathstalker and Assassination are just the absolute worst, most frustrating from an “interacting with the hero tree” standpoint. Put on top of that the current stealth issues - and the fact that devs won’t even acknowledge that there are bugs or issues or problems…and this is what we get.
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and what if you want to have mark on a specific target?
and it keeps reapplying and reapplying?
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Then reapply it to the target you want it on…It’s not complicated.
so in your opener you will shift mark from one target to another, consume 1 stack with rupture, then start again from 3 on another target, right?
you have no clue what u are talking about mate. no clue whatsoever.
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That defeats the entire purpose of the hero tree.
It’s supports funnel damage, and you are arguing that for the sake of not pressing ambush, you should disregard the entire principle of funnel damage to haphazardly throw the mark around. If you think Deathstalker and Sin are bad…I might suggest it’s because you aren’t playing it correctly.
I do.
I didn’t say it was bad. I said: “of all the hero trees, Deathstalker and Assassination are just the absolute worst, most frustrating from an “interacting with the hero tree” standpoint.”
But nice try.
I’m not going to argue back and forth. There are certainly times where you have no Deathstalker’s Mark out - and vanish is on cooldown. It’s just fact. If you deny that, you’re lying.
And yes - apply your dots, then choose your main target - or cleave your Garrotes off your main target (in the event that there are 5 or 7 targets). If more, then do it however you want. For me personally, 5 Garrotes and 5 Ruptures gets the job done…Those bleeds are there for energy saturation anyway. Otherwise, you’re just better of FOK’ing and Spattering your Envenoms. If you think otherwise, again, you’re not telling the truth.
This is all just fact.
bottom line, you want DS Mark to be applied with a button you DO NOT press on more than 1 target
you might spread your garrotes with tab
you will not ambush every mob once
the true answer to this problem is mutilate. works perfectly fine with caustic spatter. it’s tried, tested and true. would work perfectly fine with DS Mark as well.
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See, we disagree. And it’s not because I have “no clue what I’m talking about”
I just play some sub too - and sub swims in applications of it.
I’m fine with garrote applying it, even outside of stealth/IC windows. Because then you have no time at all when it’s not on your prio target ever (except the short cooldown of garrote, anyway).
We can disagree without you insulting me. I’ve finished top 5 NA for m+ many seasons as sin. I’ve finished top 2 for my “full” realm. I’ve finished top for NA BTM before. I dunno why you want to assume that just because someone has a different opinion than you that it’s ok to tell them that they have “no clue what they’re talking about.”
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i mean i’m on a lvl 10 char cause i’m from the EU
but you’re a legend here in NA, why you posting from a lvl 38 alt?
you don’t seem to know what you are talking about, and i do not mean it as an insult, because you don’t seem to acknowledge the fact that the issue is not applying the mark, but consuming the stacks.
it has to stay on 1 target, so that you have time to consume the 3 stacks and benefit from the capstone.
if garrote would apply it, it would lock you out of pressing garrote until you consume the 3 stacks you already have, otherwise you will never trigger the capstone
it may not be an issue in ST, but anything with target swapping would be bad. worse than it is right now.
you would not be able to bleed a second target in PVP and go on your primary again, because the mark has shifted. you’d have 6 seconds before you can apply it on your intended target.
i hope i explained this better this time.
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Might want to wait for the next expansion, heard something will change then. May be a hero talent that throws out a target dummy that is bugged doesn’t do aggro and doesn’t look like us but does break stealth.
How
When Ambush applies Deathstalker’s Mark
- Hit Ambush (Applies)
- Unless stealth breaks on your way in, then your hero tree is just pointless, or you gotta use your vanish
- Hit Garrote
- Hit Garrote
- If you tab-targeted, you gotta re-find your original target with DM
- Hit Rupture
- Hit Rupture
- Hit FOK / FOK / CT
You’re 6-7 globals in and you’re at Darkest Night
If Garrote applies Deathstalker’s Mark
- Hit Garrote (Applies)
- Hit Garrote (Re-Applies at a fresh 3 stacks)
- No need to re-find anything. The mob you have targeted has your DM
- Hit Rupture
- Hit Rupture
- Hit FOK / FOK / CT
You’re 5-6 globals in and you’re at Darkest Night
Maybe I’m missing something - please feel free to either explain it to me or not. But if you won’t explain it to me, stop telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about.
What is the difference other than:
- Not having to ambush
- Not having your hero tree completely useless because stealth broke on the way in
- Not worrying if your target runs to the other side of the room (or an intermission) with a stack of DM on it while you don’t have stealth?
- Not worrying if you just got Darkest Night, so now you can’t (shouldn’t) Envenom a second boss you’re hitting temporarily, or the DM debuff will get stuck on him.
Have you don’t the Silken Court fight? It’s a perfect example of how actually bad the interaction is in actual play on a fight like that.
Edit: Wait are you saying like if you just refresh Garrote you don’t want your 1 stack turning into 3? Ok…I get that. But that’s easy. If you don’t have a DM out and within range, it doesn’t overwrite it. If you Garrote and you don’t have one out or it’s out of range, have it apply a new one. There’s many ways to fix it. But the current implementation does feel terrible sometimes.
You are overcapping by hitting garrote twice after ambush in the first example, when in your other example, you are not, but then you have it down as hitting rupture twice back to back with no build up?
These example rotations are all over the place. For both examples.
Ok. Whatever you say. I’ll just agree to disagree with you.
To me, Deathstalker’s Mark is the worst-feeling hero tree interaction (for assassination) of any hero trees that exist). You can think it’s fine…but it’s not. I’m over it.
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yes that is what i am saying
your fixes, if i understand them right, would cause even more headache
you’d have to track the distance to the target.
the point is to have an ability that you will be unlikely to use on a second target apply the mark.
since you want to have garrote out on more mobs, and you cannot only rely on indiscriminate carnage, it is likely that you will keep shifting the marks between targets.
right now, the issue seems to be that in AOE you do not want to press ambush ( or mutilate ).
the more elegant fix for DS mark is to have mutilate apply it as well, first and foremost, so you are not relying on stealth (which as you said, may break, but that’s another topic).
then you want an incentive to press ambush in AOE, aside from applying DS mark.
Whether this is a “your first ambush out of stealth generates max combo points” like sub has, or it’s “the first ambush out of stealth hit nearby targets for 50% damage” or “ambush increases the number of targets affected by indiscriminate carnage by 1”, the solution is to make ambush desirable in the opener, not to change how DS Mark is applied to better exclude ambush.
Especially since Subtlety does not have garrote
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