That doesn’t change the facts any. Besides, every post by everyone that tries to persuade you one way or another is propaganda. You’ve posted your own fair share of propaganda in this thread.
After all, propaganda is just information, and information is a tool. It’s how we use it right? But wait… propaganda is designed to influence… so propaganda is a tool in use right? But propaganda itself is just a tool as well… how it’s used is what is important… but how is propaganda used? It’s used based on the information it contains… a bit of a paradox isn’t it.
Telling you to get add-ons is the roundabout way of telling you to learn the fight. Since people don’t put effort into learning the fight, you have to strap training wheels to them. We had a healer that didn’t use any add-ons and honest to God thought he was “doing good” but every time we checked him on the log he was grey or green at best while also getting very good gear from the raids we were doing. Eventually convinced him to install some basic healing add-ons and lo and behold he can go to blue and purple like every other healer now.
Sometimes you just have to hook people up to a machine because they won’t perform otherwise.
I take it you weren’t here before the add-ons existed and missed out on the fun that was everyone is getting a gear inspection.
It doesn’t matter if they put up parses or not. There have always been ways to figure out if someone is not pulling their weight or not. The only change is the hyper sensitive society that we have now that find everything offensive.
If it doesn’t kill you or give you super powers, it’s not toxic.
I was here before that even started. And before addons made that information more readily available it was easy enough to get groups that didn’t care about gear inspections.
Long answer: It’s players who use it incorrectly that are toxic. Look at FF14 for example, you have no way of knowing if you’re playing your class optimally and no one can call you out on it or they’re too scared to because of their rules, sure it’s “nicer” but you’re putting a burden on your team by not playing to your fullest potential. It creates the exact opposite, toxic casualism. Then on the other side of that coin is WoW where it’s the exact opposite of FF14.
But I’d much rather have the option to use the addons and filter out the idiots than not have the option at all.
And plenty wanted them. Doesn’t matter, it’s the player’s choice. That’s the thing, if I want to make sure you have the love rocket before I run with you, as silly as that benchmark is, it’s my right.
Even in FF, people will not group with people who have tanked the group before. Every community is player based, and until you change everyone’s mind, which is never going to happen, people will judge you.
You are aware that you are just strengthening my point right now. These addons were developed with unnecessary information expressly so that they WOULD be used in that way. People claim them to be for “self improvement” but they arn’t. They are meant to be used to promote toxic behaviors and exclusionary practices.
You take that as strengthening your point? Telling you that this is all self-perceived on your part?
Listen, if people find you aren’t doing well enough, they can say bye. It’s that simple. You want to make parsing a social thing and really it’s not.
99% of these posts come from people who weren’t performing and are upset that meters carried the group assessment. You want to bypass that, and have everyone suffer for the few who can’t be bothered to play properly. I know that seems harsh, but it’s the reality here. If you were underperforming at work, you wouldn’t be working there either.
This would be yes and no. Some people will use it to be toxic but plenty of people use it to learn how they can do better or Raid Leaders use it as a tool to where if they are on a progression boss and someone isn’t pulling their weight which is preventing progression then they can use it to sit someone for that boss etc.
IMO there are lot more positives with add-ons and parse Websites than negatives. But as I said, obviously there will be people to use it to be toxic as well.
Admittedly, WoW isn’t really brain-dead at the attentive level. Even Classic, despite being a lot easier overall, requires coordination a lot of players lack.
What I’m saying here is… FF does lazy content better.
And at jobs where performance metrics are tracked they are typically kept private and only shared with the individual they pertain to for the express reasoning that making those metrics publicly available to all employees about everyone promotes hostile work environments. People misuse information all the time. Limiting access to information that can be misused is the only way to ensure it will be used appropriately.
You want to try that again? People can tell when you are doing half the work they are. I see you want to claim that this doesn’t happen but it does. Often those fellow employees complain, much like people who run with a bad player in WoW.
You get that even if you got your wish, your dying in the fire will still be noticed right?
Listen, you want inclusion, so does everyone else. If I see you slacking and bringing down the run, I will remove you. I have been removed myself before, it happens, I got better. I did not assume that everyone needed to be stuck on that fight because I alone was doing poorly.
You see, that’s not playing a victim, that’s realizing that sometimes you are not always the best fit. You want everyone to ignore that.
Yes they are made to see how people are doing and to know if you need to either A. remove them from the group if they are underperforming, B. get them to get their act together and start playing better, or C. leave the group if you are not the leader and you don’t wanna waste your time with the group. I have definitely used it for things like that.
No they can also be used to judge your own performance to actually improve your own play so you can be a better asset to your guild/M+ group. I have used it for this way more than the former.
If these addons/parse websites were removed it would actually be much worse for the game than better. people wouldn’t try to improve (or wouldn’t know what they have to do to improve) and the overall player skill will drastically drop.
Big stretch of the words bad behavior. You never indicated shaming or bullying or harassment, so i must assume its referring to just a person posting damage in chat and being happy about being high on the numbers.
Unless there is information you’ve left out, it really just sounds like you’re the bully, who wants to control that person, because you disagree with how they have fun.
I also I don’t really believe
because
sounds very self reflective.
no, this is just wishful thinking.
good thing meters don’t present information beyond what is necessary for their intended purpose.
Ah yes, so instead there should be a dps meter where if you wanted to compare yourself against someone performing much better than you, you would have no way of knowing what exactly it is they are doing differently.
making the dps meter completely useless.
I disagree with this statement, but aside from that, this is still just a good thing.
No this is just projecting.
figuring out the cause of failure is not just a blame game. and having the information available is important. And low dps can very much be a very real reason for failure.
the information can never be toxic.
You’re talking about people.
please tell me how the data presented is done in a biased way.
that’s not what propaganda means, nor is that what damage meters do.
big facts.
oh you’re in so deep.
it’s not “just” information.
that’s actually too bad. I only use grid which is a simpler style raid frame, and no actual healing addons. I parse decently well.
if we want this comparison to be maintained, then you still need a “manager” in every raid that has access to that information… We call that the raid leader.
And who is it currently who goes through meters to decide who messed up??? starts with and R, ends in Eader.
An example of a toxic player using the tool. If they would of done this in FF14 they would of been banned. Blizzards needs to do more to hold these people accountable.
Big difference between actually witnessing poor performance and judging performance from a metric number. There are countless reasons why someone’s numbers might be low, and while many of them are performance related not all of them are. Someone might be performing a task in the group that actually aids everyone else far more than their damage output might in a specific encounter, but because their damage is low they are “underperforming” even if their actions were the only reason you even survived the encounter. Meters largely result in perceptions being shifted from reality to numbers, you are nolonger a person who did something but are instead the sum total of a string of numbers.
And I don’t have a problem with that. If your decisions are based on what you actually saw transpire and not your assumptions from a string of numbers on a meter then by all means kick the person. More and more now people are vote kicked for nothing more than low numbers on a meter regardless of what they are actually doing. I have personally been kicked from groups for having “the lowest DPS” despite the fact that I AM A HEALER, and no one was dying because I was actually doing my job.