Yes, balance is the top spec. Meanwhile, Im getting screwed over for trying to play enhancement
1 Like
I use was using 25s more as an example of content that the vast majority of playerbase cannot or will not do.
Iâm sure balance could be even better than it is now, but for the vast majority of people itâs definitely good enough
2 Likes
If we ignore covenant letâs see what the data is. Some classes still feel like hitting a brick wall with a pillow.
Im not a stats guy but id be shocked if even 10% of the playerbase scratched the +20 mark. Seems most people are content to do +15-17 at most. The reason people are failing keys at those levels is not even remotely the classes fault but everyone points to data they refuse to understand to justify their inability to progress.
We have decent balance right now, but there are still some issues here and there. The WW in my m+ push group does 25% more DPS than my BM Hunter, for example.
Mostly because there is no reason to go beyond a +15.
If if were to be completely honest Iâd never invite myself, an enhance shaman, or a ret pally to a 25.
The balance at the high end is bad, itâs very rare to be completing 24+ on non meta classes. The utility and damage profile/cd spread that some classes bring above other classes/specs is pretty insane.
*sorry feral druids, I forgot you existed for a second.
I mean thats kinda the point, all the specs in the game can easily blow a much higher difficulty than the full reward out of the water yet people act like they donât get invited to +2s because their spec is irredeemably bad when its not. As others have said in this thread, if you wanna see laughably bad balance, look no further than the supposed holy grail of great gameplay vanilla and how half its specs are complete garbage.
2 Likes
Been saying this since 9.0.5, for PvP too.
Donât get me wrong balance isnât perfect right now, but people take for granted that every class has at least one viable spec for PvP & PvE.
Class Balance still can use work but it has come a long way.
Why would you ignore covenants when they are in the game? That would be like saying letâs look at legion cusses but everyone unequip your legendary or in bfa for everyone to stop using azerite armour then looking at the balance then lol.
Itâs even less than that I think. Raider io released their stats when the title was announced. 2700 was roughly what is needed for the title which is about 24s timed with a few 25s thrown in probably. That is 0.1% of the players.
I think 2300 or so was 7% which is probably about the 20s mark I think? Iâll be honestly im guesstimating from memory and itâs late but the numbers are out there to check.
That majority donât even get ksm.
Balance is a tricky thing because itâs all relative. The most skilled players of each class are within 10-12% of each other. Thatâs not bad for them, but that delta is much worse at the peak of the bell curve in skill, and again very spread out when compared across covenants. There are so many variables to control for, itâs gets really muddy on wether or not classes are âbalancedâ.
And then thereâs the social aspect. Aff Warlocks (maybe less so now) have always had the stigma of âgreat boss damage, bad trash damageâ, and deservedly so. The change to seeds in 9.1 was a welcome addition to the kit, but it cost them their single target niche. Is that balanced? Is that fair? It depends on whom you ask. For warlocks who struggled to get into m+ groups (and wanted to) thatâs a boon. For warlocks who enjoyed being the top dog in single target bosses, it was a betrayal of their class fantasy.
Itâs so hard to balance things across the game, and depending on what you do and what you play, maybe the game doesnât feel very balanced right now. I play mostly in m+, and a good monk is basically a requirement right now in every group. Doesnât feel great to me when I try to run as unholy or hop on another alt, that gap (for that situation) is huge.
I guess all Iâm saying itâs more complicated than that stupid wowhead graphic.
1 Like
Which is exactly the point. People are pointing out that content literally 99.9% of players do play, their spec, covenant, and talents are NOT the make or break point but the community still refuses to invite them to what should be considered trivial keys.
I see it myself at 2100 IOâŚmy alts get declined from even 12âs at 235-240+ ilvl. I can guarantee I am better than any given keyholder for those runs they have the audacity to decline me for. If anything, Iâd borderline support that if someone higher in IO signs up to your group, they have the option to invite themselves and assume leadership seeing as they are more qualified to lead than you are.
This community has always had a big problem worshipping the spreadsheet nerds and blindly trusting whatever decree comes out on what spec, talent, stat, etc is âbadâ and blindly taking it to the radical extreme and trying their best to limit groups to only the ârightâ people.
That is why I supported Blizzard locking covenant choice down and making it annoying to switchâŚthe game does not require anyone to be fully min maxed to clear anything and this is especially true for everyone who isnât a literal world first type.
To try and deny people arenât getting declined from 2âs because the keyholder is holding out for exceptionally geared and/or meta specs is wrongâŚit absolutely does happen.
Son are you serious right now with that forceful key takeover?
Stop trolling on your secret account Ion
Is this a DK problem? Because Iâve never had an easier time getting into PUGs on my BM Hunter.
Do you have anything useful to add?
i disagree. content draught helps with that. they wait for gearing to see scaling which they already admited thus they dont like to buff/nerf at the start which is already bad.
it;s not so bad to the point yea we canât play other specs but at say the very start of the expac itâs bad. people need to look at balancing in general NOT just in the current patch. thats like me saying oh wait until the very end of the expac everything is gonna get balanced even more. yea because were in what like a 6+ month long content draught with dog poop pre expac events now days.
DK dps and feral Druid are probably some of the rarest classes/specs I see in queue, also enhance.
Whenever we list keys the queue is basically full of mages, hunters, warriors, and monks.
That power creep has allowed the worst performing specs to complete a 25âs while other specs have done more 29âs than theyâve done 25âs, is not balance.
Hereâs some 9.1 results. ( Tables donât come through in the link )
I have no reason not to believe that the only thing thatâs happened rising water has lifted all boats equally and the worst specs are still roughly 30% off from the best.