Spriest was my absolute favorite from BC-CAT. I dont remember why they decided to start messing with it with a combo point system, and then void form.
I was excited when i read Spriest was getting some reverts and i’m kind of disappointed a third resource is still there. It wont be as clunky as previous iterations from MOP forward.
Was it considered too easy, low skill floor and low skill ceiling? I miss the priority system with mind flay as the filler with passive heals popping off around me 100% of the time.
We were “gated” behind a “mana” pool during that time. It was only during a bit in Wrath and more so in Cata that we can “control” our mana in that we have multiple methods to gain it back during battle.
Complexity
With all the constant changes and updates for the rest of the classes, I think shadow staying as just a ability CD and mana restricted would limit our competitiveness compared to the rest of the classes and specs.
Conclusion:
I think we got Shadow Orbs in Cata as a “trial” to see how it would play with an additional resource mechanic. But with the flaws with RNG in generating them, they then moved to a “fixed” amount in a “fixed” source thus “resembling” a “combo point system”. However, I don’t see it as a combo based system and to me it doesn’t really play like one.
Typical “combo” point systems make spammable buttons grant a combo point in order to make other buttons “work” and become “more powerful” the more combo points you have.
With things like “Holy Power” and “Shadow Orbs”, the “powerful” ability to use that resource on was just “gated” behind a resource instead of mana or a timer. All that really does is “speed” up your spec based on how well you play, instead of a game mechanic that forces you to “wait” a specified time.
The “time” factor comes from your “choice” in what buttons to press prior to the “power” button instead if just waiting X time then press X button. It makes the specs feel more impactful and interesting and adds a bit of “skill” instead of just wait and press and win.
We got a good chuck of mana from it. But we still had Shadow Orbs to “empower” our next Mind blast or Mind Spike.
Dark Archangel (Dark Evangelism) - Instantly restores 5% of your total mana and increases the damage done by your Mind Flay, Mind Spike, Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death by 4% for each stack. Lasts for 18sec. 90 sec cooldown.
Its not noted in that portion of the tooltip but you get that effect after consuming Dark Evangelism and usually at 5 stacks. Thus netting you 25% mana and 20% damage bonus.
Yea I miss this too.
But I found WoD to work to both have a good resource system, as well as having access to a decent healing toolkit that still allows me to be a “Priest” and less like a mage / lock.
So tell me the changes you’d make in SLs to keep spriests competitive while keeping everything the same as it is now (since you obviously love the current iteration of them) And not make them take a full rotation of Voidform for them to even start doing damage while everyone else has blown past your dps and you’re trying to catch up.
That’s really the more annoying part of spriest for me currently. I don’t mind the playstyle. I feel with gear it becomes fluid. But something would need to change for us to actually do some semblance of dmg while every other class is bursting to godly amounts of dps, were playing the catch up game almost the entire fight.
I think that’s why most people actually welcome the changes because it sheds new light and hope for people who love spriest but hate watching everyone else zoom past their dps and feel discouraged.
You said yourself that you didn’t play Shadow Cata-WoD.
If that is indeed true, then you have no insight into how they actually played. So stop spreading false truths.
If you did actually play the spec during that time, then you would know just how off the mark you are with a comment like that.
You have a bias towards Legion-BFA shadow. That’s fine, but don’t start speaking on things that you clearly know are wrong and are just devaluing your own point of view on things and thus taken less seriously.
The truth of the matter is that during Cata, you played basically the exact same. The Shadow Orb mechanic was not a generate and consume with X ability then Y ability. It was just normal rotation that ended up increasing both your MB / MS and DoT damage passively when using the normal rotation from Wrath and prior. You didn’t have to do anything different.
During MoP and WoD, you again just played the normal way as prior except you just had DP be focused around a resource that you can manage with “skill” instead of just being gated behind mana and a timer/target. Aside from that, the spec played the same.
Old School Shadow is classic, BC, Wrath…not cata+…
I said voidform design is closer imo BECAUSE it’s just consistent straight priority rotation without worrying about builder/spender. sorry you don’t get that, but stop attacking me personally about my pov- because it’s genuine
and NO I didn’t play my shadow in cata-wod because I HATED builder/spender
As for Legacy of the void and the intention behind it; the playstye has the upside of sniping people at the end of a boss fight. BECAUSE you don’t start ahead your competition gets confident and they ‘relax’ because they are at the top, mean while you bust your butt the whole fight and snipe them at the end after they got comfortable being at the top. Kinda like the tortoise and the hare story I guess?
I don’t think Legacy of the void will play out quite that way; it has allot of the ramp removed- so no idea if that signature even stays around.
But wanted to describe the part that most don’t give it a chance to pay off for them; but when it does- it’s allot more satisfying.
I’ve never argued against the design not being ideal for open world or pvp; I felt talents was the answer to fixing that- I suppose the rework does this and just leave it at that.
Mythic+ I felt is closer to raiding and it DID feel nice to play around voidform and made pushing the key more interesting. I think again slight talent adjustments to make it a bit better for lower keys was always the answer there too.
Regardless of all that the rework is already a thing; I but I felt Legacy Of The Void should preserve what is WAS good for- because it was the most amazing design I’ve ever played in 30 years of gaming and it’s worth keeping around. To be frank, that gameplay loop is all I play WoW for at this point over Final Fantasy, it’s come down to that recently now that the beta gutted it and replaced it with a gameplay loop I just don’t find fun whatsoever. I’m personally just too against a builder/spender I’ve always HATED them with passion, I didn’t pick a priest for that style of gameplay 12 years ago. I rerolled in cata; but there’s nothing left in the game for options…
I just wish Legacy of the void on beta actually worked at preserving it; but right now it doesn’t…
You need to get over yourself.
I am not “attacking” you. I am “challenging” your claim that Legion-BFA shadow is more like Wrath and prior compared to Cata-WoD being more closer to Wrath and prior.
Shadow orbs was never really a Builder/Spender as I have stated.
In Cata, it just made your MB and MS hit harder and then gaining increased periodic damage for 15 sec.
In MoP-WoD, it just moved your hard hitting DoT DP to have more interactions and as such, needed to be adjusted to fit a more fast paced game in MoP and WoD. This came with the player controlled resource system Shadow Orbs. Prior to that, it was gated behind target/time. Now Time and target was removed and gated behind a secondary resource system. That is not like a builder/spender or combo point system.
What we have now in SL is a builder spender.
For a combo point system type playstyle, that is more about gaining access and empowering your “finish” with each combo point. But with Orbs, it didn’t get “empowered” with each orb, it just gave access to use.
You can hate Cata-WoD Shadow all you like, but calling it a Builder/spender is not really accurate but I can see why you would think that. But then trying to relate Legion-BFA is more like Wrath and prior? Your just being disingenuous at best and flat out nonsensical at worst.
I can accept 3 versions of Shadow…
Vanilla - Wrath
Cata - WoD
Legion - SL
They all played different / unique in those 3 eras, but it is a far stretch to even try to relate Legion-BFA to Wrath and prior, I am sorry but that it just flat out wrong. That is something that I will debate all day long if need be. Do not lump in those 2 eras and then say the 3rd Shadow Orb era is the odd man out. Nope, not gonna happen.
Edit:
Something I want to make a comparison about is between Combo Point vs Shadow Orb system.
Combo Point system
You can not use the “finisher” with 0 combo points.
You have a varying degree of “Power” the “Finisher” has based on a 1-max combo point you have built up.
You gain combo points at random intervals in that sometimes you press X button and get 1 combo point. Other times you press the same button and get 2 combo points etc.
Shadow Orbs
You can only use the “finisher” or I rather say “consumer” as it always consumes the exact same amount of Orbs (MoP - WoD), when you had the required amount. You cant use the ability at all until then and it never consumed more then the set amount. Meaning it was always a “static” nature, not “dynamic” in a varying degree.
In Cata, it had the “Varying” degree of power but without the need to “access” the ability as it consumed ALL orbs or none. But you were not gated behind orbs.
In Cata, you gained orbs at a “Random” and “varying” degree (which was the main downside of that system) in which you can not hit a button and get an orb, you were left to the RNG of mind flay proccing a orb. Until Tier 13 4 set became a thing and fixed it.
In Mop-Wod, you had a set amount of orbs from a set amount of abilities to use at a “static” pace. Meaning, you always knew you were going to get X on button press.
This worked well because the buttons you got a Shadow Orb from had cooldowns attached to them. Meaning you can not just spam the ability and generate the orbs you wanted/needed. You had to wait until the CD came back to press again. This created the “priory” system in that when you cant press the button with a CD to get an Orb, you had flexibility in what you wanted to do in-between. This allowed for moments to look around and set up other things like sniping a low HP target for a burst of orbs. Or using healing / utility or setting up targets and doing mechanics. All without tanking your DPS.
Conclusion:
Shadow orbs allowed you to map out your gameplay as a “rotation” or “priority” system in that you always knew you were getting the same result when pressing the same buttons. There was no random or dynamic aspect. That made it “fun” for me at least because I can use all the moments between those “key moments” (downtime between cool downs) to move ahead, plan out targets, use my utility, toss out spot heals all the while keeping up on my damage as I didn’t need to button mash 24/7 ASAP. I could relax and look for more “Priestly” things to do which made the spec feel well rounded and optimized.
im sorry but i have no idea how you’d come to that conclusion. spriest in legion/bfa has been the biggest departure from vanilla-wotlk’s versions in both fantasy and gameplay. we lost DP which was iconic to spriest and abilities such as void bolt, SW:V, and voidform shifted our fantasy from “shadow priest” to “void priest”. we went from being a very steady dps spec to having some of the most absurd ramp in the entire game. lots of priest spells were pruned, causing us to feel very disconnected from our class. i felt the least like a shadow priest playing in legion/bfa than i did in any other expac.
I focus more on the rotaton/resource management part than the theme/aesthetic, which to be fair I should have clarified more. Mana and insanity drain I felt is closer than a builder/spender. That’s my opinion
You used mana in order to being able to cast spells.
Legion - BFA, you used spells in order to get Insanity (mana).
The main difference is you are punished if you don’t have any target to attack and as such punished for every GCD you don’t make 100% use out of which forces you to be rooted. It didn’t allow any forgiveness for short fights or intermissions or doing mechanics as when your not using every GCD 100% optimally, you don’t just get your insanity drain to “pause” as it will just get worse and worse the longer and more mistakes you make. Then those mistakes are more often then not out of your control. You are no longer playing the spec, the spec is playing you based on everything around you. You loose control and autonomy on what you want to do and when to do it as it is decided on the enemy player or mechanics of the fight.
I realize at anytime i can play classic wow and get onto my shadow priest, but the real deal is BC and WOTLK for me, that’s what i want…that’s that i need
Probably cause you barely see any shadow priests anymore, have very little presence in M+ , many issues with content that requires burst, adds that have little health, and from what I’ve seen, most people were unhappy with the Voidform playstyle.
I could care less about being a special snowflake. Give me something that works and is fun anytime.
This wasnt a Shadow Priest specific change, it was an entire change to the game as a whole. All DPS share this problem. They all mostly have the same concept of building spending.
This was a WoD change that many people shared a dislike for, but Blizzard has just kept it for some reason. No one knows why.
Within the context of how bad Classes play however, ShadowPriest is doing very well comparatively. Thats why people are excited, because it has some resemblence of old Shadow Priest. People are clammoring to anything at this point. Thats how bad it is.