Anyone else just, really bored now?

Nope Stratholme is just on the border. There’s some reference to a city larger than Stratholme that was a major port. That is or isn’t Stratholme depending on the old unclear lore. But Northern Lordaeron is still a zone on the map entirely untouched.

I’d make a big city called idk like Zeaverstadt or whatever since Lordaeron seems vaguely German/Russian coded. Those German and Russian accents the Scarlets and Cult of the Damned have surely come from somewhere.

And I’d make that zone just an apocalypse nightmare. Open air Stratholme. Could house a dungeon or two, a raid, a delve or two and be the setting of a PvP arena.

And as Blizz wants to move away from the faction war - okay. So the two factions warring over it you can help are The Scarlet Crusade or Cult of the Damned. Led by Blood Princess Thal’Ena and for the Scarlets I’ll say Pastor Bedford Brimstone. Because why be subtle?

Either way objectively helping villains. But better than mindless throngs of zombies?

… Right?

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Sadly, the current story is boring me as well. I haven’t even finished it with Dan yet and I just feel like something is missing from the story that would make me interested. The housing is different but it’s not really enough for me to want to keep playing. At this point I’m hoping that the Last Titan will be a better story.

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That’s pretty much why I go towards the older expansions. They have some bits of charm.

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I don’t think it needs to be an either/or between Forsaken and Worgen. Forsaken absolutely fit a plague-haunted Tirisfal neighborhood, but Worgen could use something more specifically Gilnean rather than just borrowing Duskwood.

I’d love a rain-soaked woodland neighborhood with old stone walls, overgrown estates, harvest shrines, misty moors, and isolated villages. Less overtly undead than Tirisfal, but still Gothic and uneasy… like civilization is holding back the wilderness by its fingernails.

That would also give Blizzard room to develop Harvest Witch traditions and the rural side of Gilneas instead of reducing Worgen identity to "Victorian humans who turn into wolves”.

In other words Tirisfal should feel dead. Gilneas should feel alive, but watching you from the treeline.

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It’s kind of the same vibes, different location.

I really want to see a bit more in the way of Horde vs Alliance - it doesn’t need to be MoP or BFA levels of H vs A, but zone contained like Ashenvale and Hellfire, yes…just to show the distrust between the two factions.

The whole “Zul’jan going off the rails” is not what I want either…I want shady Horde characters and shady Alliance characters to start conflicts. Lowborn Night Elf women have a thing for starting conflicts…look at W3.

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Yeah I’m just not feeling the game anymore.

They desperately want me to play with the constant barrage of seasonal events and much like MC Ride I’m just like, “eh.”

I like some of the sidequests but generally I don’t care about the lore of this expansion and don’t really feel immersed. And there’s some good things to like about the gameplay but I mostly just burned myself out on it and don’t want to continue.

I’ve been playing FFXIV for the past year and have decided to just main that instead. And it’s for the best, I really don’t have the time for two MMOs so I might as well pick the one that I enjoy being in and am invested in.

I really, really don’t like the Haranir. While I like their visual design, I just don’t like their vibe, and the recent “revelation” just made me groan and eyeroll and decide to cut it off. I really wish they would’ve added more onto lore of the races we already have rather than do this. I much more enjoyed something like the Nethersent and was 10x more invested in them than I am the Haranir.

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I’ve been so busy with Pathfinder and Starfinder that I’ve got much catchup to do here. :slight_smile:

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It’s uh. Going to be dissapointing. Friend of mine is doing just that and she’s going

“Well I didn’t hate the Arator quest mostly because Faol’s fun. Also really love the dynamic between the siblings in Zul’Aman. Hope it builds on that. Really don’t like those Haranir though”

And I want to spoil. Because is it really spoiling if you tell them not to eat the part of the sandwich with rotten meat?

In this case; yes. Because they need to know what an okay if a little wonky story this is. Before it flies completely off the rails and triples down on everything you hated.

I’m ngl this might be the death note for me. Finally getting back to Azeroth proper and building on lore that’s been in stasis for 20 years now come November.

And this is… what they delivered. Not since Shadowlands have I’ve been so happy the Forsaken are largely uninvolved in a story that demands their presence.

But they won’t be spared forever and I dread at what might happen if they touch Lordaeron.

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WoW was never perfectly written, but even its weaker expansions still felt like Warcraft. The factions had different perspectives, races had their own cultures and characters were allowed to be difficult, wrong or morally complicated. Since BfA, and especially Shadowlands and Dragonflight, that identity has slowly disappeared.

BfA repeated the Horde-villain story and rushed through Azshara and N’Zoth. Shadowlands was the real breaking point. Death became a mechanical system of random fantasy zones, robots and the Jailer being placed behind half of Warcraft’s history. Important characters were treated badly, while races with actual connections to death, like Trolls, Orcs, Tauren and Forsaken, were mostly ignored. Blizzard explained death so much that it stopped feeling mysterious and became almost ridiculous.

Dragonflight then went into the opposite extreme. Everything became healing, family, forgiveness and friendship. The dragons often felt like friendly Elves who sometimes transform, the Primalists appeared with a huge army from nowhere and several dragonflights were barely used. The Blue Dragonflight was probably handled best, but stories like Murozond were rushed and most of the expansion felt harmless and unimportant.

The War Within was supposed to begin one connected saga, but it jumped from Nerubians to Goblins, Ethereals and K’aresh like different stories glued together. Undermine was fun, but even the Bilgewater Cartel barely felt Horde. Thrall vanished despite the marketing, and Xal’atath now mostly appears, smirks, says everything is planned and leaves again. That worked in Legion, but after years without a clear goal it starts feeling like the Jailer again.

Midnight makes the identity problem even worse. Quel’Thalas is invaded, but where is the Horde? Where are the Orcs, Forsaken, Tauren, Darkspear and Zandalari helping one of their oldest allies? Lor’themar asks for an army, yet Arator is the one who suggests uniting the Elves. Blood Elves feel like background characters in their own homeland while Alleria, Turalyon, Arator, Umbric and the Windrunner family control the main story. And everything has to be united now. Old hatred, politics and cultural differences are rushed into another Avengers moment. Blood Elves, High Elves and Void Elves have completely different histories, yet suddenly it is “all Elves together.” Even the Sunwell, one of the biggest parts of Blood Elf identity, becomes something broader and shared. Meanwhile old crimes and conflicts are barely addressed, while the Blood Elves’ real Horde connections are ignored.

They have fought beside Darkspear and Zandalari Trolls for years, yet Zul’Aman has no meaningful Rokhan, Talanji or wider Horde-Troll perspective. Thalyssra is married to Lor’themar but they barely have anything together. Liadrin suffered under the Amani, yet she and Zul’jarra become friendly after a few quests. Rommath is mostly there to grumble so Umbric can look wiser. The Blood Elf cast is secondary while Alliance Elves get the important scenes.

Arator is also part of the modern character problem. Anduin himself is not the issue, but Blizzard keeps writing weaker copies of the same personality: always friendly, emotionally correct, morally right and somehow more important than everyone else. Arator has lived through wars, yet behaves like a lecturing teenager. Giving him forced connections to Liadrin or Lor’themar does not make him a Horde character. Why does he have so much authority in Quel’Thalas instead of actual Blood Elf characters?

The same applies to the forced family drama with Turalyon and Alleria. Turalyon suddenly has to represent “Light blindness” and be the bad father, while Allerias own failures are treated much softer. It feels created for drama, not like natural development.

Zul’jan stood out because he was not another safe character. He was proud, angry and difficult, but his anger came from real history. He did not need to win or be completely right. He could fail and learn that blind revenge would destroy the Amani without forgiving the Blood Elves or becoming friendly. Instead, it looks like the difficult brother becomes the villain so the nicer sister can represent the future. Zul’jarra becomes more boring every time I replay the story because she is another reasonable, friendly character who is accepted far too quickly.

Even the Void has become generic. The Old Gods, Faceless Ones and their servants once felt alien, disgusting and unknowable. Now it often looks like black or purple garbage bags with eyes and mouths, while the Void becomes another neutral magic power tied to family drama. The Light is treated the same way. Everything has to be explained, balanced and made compatible until nothing feels dangerous anymore.

Separate Horde and Alliance campaigns were never pointless duplicate content. They were part of Warcraft’s soul because they showed the world through different cultures and interests. The Alliance also needs internal conflict and more focus for races besides Humans and Alliance Elves. Today both factions are replaced by one neutral campaign, one opinion and one acceptable ending. There are still good side quests, and the art, music, raids and gameplay can be great. My problem is the writing.

Warcraft still looks like Warcraft, but it increasingly feels like generic fantasy wearing its skin. The Horde barely exists, the Alliance is morally flattened, cultures are merged, conflicts become friendship almost instantly and too many characters feel like different Anduins. I do not want endless faction war or the game trapped in the past. I just want different cultures, real disagreements, dangerous mysteries and characters who can be partly right and partly wrong without being softened or thrown away as villains. Blizzard is keeping Warcraft’s appearance, but slowly replacing its soul !

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I get that. I’m not quite at “death knell” yet, but I do share the worry that finally revisiting old Azeroth lore doesn’t mean much if they strip away what made those cultures interesting in the first place.

I’ve liked some pieces more than you seem to, even if I have a few quibbles here and there, especially the Arator/Faol material and parts of the Arathi. But the Haranir stuff and the broader tendency to simplify everything into one clean cosmic narrative has me cautious.

I don’t necessarily want Blizzard to avoid Lordaeron. I just want them to resist the urge to turn the Forsaken into “Stormwind, but undead.” Let them remain unsettling, pragmatic, and genuinely shaped by undeath instead of chasing normalcy.

That’s what made them one of Warcraft’s most distinctive cultures in the first place.

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Looking at worldsoul as a whole you have

Nerubians, Arathi, Earthen, Goblins, Kobolds, Haranir, Amani, Domanaar, Blood elves

Nerubians have very clear dividing lines between their individual functions. Similar to maldraxxus in the sense that their physical form is an embodiment of their pursuits / function in their society.

Goblins, Earthen, Haranir (to some extent) and Amani/troll tribes all have dividing lines, not as clear as the nerubians but it still exists. Which should be the case with all races. An ironforge dwarf should be X Y or Z a gnome A B or C etc. etc. But up til shadowlands its always been poorly delivered. Like even looking at the forsaken… in dragonsblight with putress… he tarnished the race as a whole because the race received no development otherwise, and the writers even ran with the idea all through cataclysm.

Now at least they’re providing ammunition for the future of the story to have turmoil occur within single races. It would’ve been nice to know a bit more about druids of the flame, seeing their stories develop slowly over the course of vanilla, tbc and wotlk. WoD did a decent job of separating the orcish clans, except it took an entire expansion worth of questing content, and it still feels more individual rather than factionwide (like kargath IS bladefist).

Elves I think are being handled decently, we’ve always know they’re arrogant. Kaelthas being the poster boy, sylvanas and her sisters… they’ve always had a superiority complex. Seeing the divide between the martial class, the mage class, the poor and the nobles shouldn’t be enlightening… but at least its now being shown in game.

Hopefully they use WSS as a basis for the future, they add a base to build off, then they build the original races off of that modern depth.

The old writing was fine was Thrall was the exception to being an orc. But now that that counter culture amongst races is spreading, an undead can be evil, an undead can be devout… its not any “less fine”… its just not special when you encounter an orc who is more thrall than grom. But the story becomes significantly more complex because an undead a human and an orc can have more in common than 3 trolls or 3 dwarves. It just takes times for blizz to actually “make it make sense” because up until shadowlands they really did an awful job making humans feel diverse; everyone was the same and there was 1 or 2 evil amongst the bunch who “putressed” their reputation.

And now random troll raid ! cause cant have a colinzed person be anti colinizers!

THEY went out of their way to make them NOT horde but ‘neutral’

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Never thought I’d get to this point, but for a while now I’m just skipping everything that can be skipped. I skip the Light, I skip the Void, I skip the conflicts that I know will be resolved a few quests later, I skip the retcons, I skip the elf drama, I skip the domesticated gods, I skip the root elder preaching, I skip the space stuff, I skip the feet lady, and I certainly skip Windrunners and their magic whirlpools. Just a gnome happily skipping through the fields.

Really, I was much more invested in Shadowlands, because at least the question of “how badly can they muck this up?” stayed exiting from start to finish. The succeeding addons took away that comical degree of ridiculousness, but that just left bland nothingness as far as my interests were concerned. Cosmic powers that are treated as actors but don’t get to be characters you could actually have a position on and… stories about ending old conflicts, biases, false traditions and loyalties, and maybe bashing a bigot or two. Oh, and some superficial personal drama about what everyone should or should not regret.

…At this point I even kind of want to skip my own summary.

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Why do they even need to have an arc? Why can’t anyone just stay flawed anymore?

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Or get worse without turning into a villain. Thats always an option too. You can character develop into a bastard instead of a saint.

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The original Bloodlines RULES. I’d be up for starting a Discord game if you can get enough people in, Benediktion; but we have to use a version where I can play a Malkavian.

In a not VTM vein, as I’ve posted several times, I haven’t even played since the first patch. Only subbed to continue conversing with you lovely people on the Story Forums. This “plot”, if it can even be called that, is so derivative of an early 2000’s Disney movie, complete with bonking you over the head with vain surface-level morality.

If someone just finished Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne yesterday and boosted a character this expansion - they’d be playing a game wholly unrecognizable from anything from WC3. And at least in this instance, that is not a good thing.

That, on top of everything Furos expressed in his excellent post… I don’t know. If you care whatsoever about plot or story in Midnight; you’re not eating well. In fact, you’re starving.

The story is beyond just “bad” or “terrible”, it goes out of its way to insult your intelligence as a WoW player at every turn it possibly can. Something that works very well from Western Gaming studios in 2026 /s.

They really need to get their writing crew in order; a game that has this many players and is still profitable after 20+ years shouldn’t be having writers this awful crafting the narrative.

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See Gbay99 (old school runesccape player that tried wc3 then retail and is now LOVING classic wow)

It keeps happening though. The Bilgewater Cartel barely felt Horde, and now Midnight introduces another Revantusk tribe that conveniently has no meaningful connection to the Horde Revantusk we’ve known for years.

It makes the world feel isolated instead of connected. Existing Horde relationships keep being ignored so every story can stay “neutral.” That’s exactly why I miss faction campaigns. They made the world feel much bigger because Horde and Alliance actually experienced events differently.

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Nah, the sooner the factions be merged/every last bit of faction barrier be disolved, the better. Let the story be good because its a good story and not because its Horde or Alliance.

OH i know

they relaly dont like the horde (or tbh the setting/universe) at all

thats kinnda mindight aswell you like the blood elves for being the blood elves? TO freaking bad!

you like amani (after zulaman atleast but even then it has some issues)? well to freakign bad !

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