I’m a rogue lover in a terrible spot. I need to choose my mythic+/raid char but I refuse to play this gutted Sub rogue version and, honestly, Outlaw’s fun but the single is… lackluster, let’s keep it at that.
Does blizzard usually balance classes post release? Like midway season 1?
We might get a tuning pass on the 17th, but there’s almost no chance they fix the underlying design issues. It’s dead right now.
Some dps specs are absolutely destroying us in dungeons. Doing half of a good MM or Ret paladin overall. Little bit above a prot warrior. It’s abysmal.
Even if we got a large buff, it’s still boring as hell now. We don’t have AOE silence. We don’t get master assassin. We need to stack haste just to still feel slow and starved, and our rotation is more simple and boring than ever. You get bleeds going, and pool so you can spam envenom 5 times in a row to repeat. It’s bleh.
Agree. The pacing of the spec is extremely boring. In a dungeon if the tank pulls a ton of mobs it’s the most frustrating experience ever.
Tank pulls too little? It’s usually dead before my ramp can get my damage going. Tank pulls too much? Now I have little to no energy after I spread all of my bleeds.
Pooling as a concept is just not functional with how this game plays today - we do not get to dictate how a group operates. The tank and healer do. Even if the tank were to operate completely around our shortcomings, our damage isn’t good enough to make that worth it. If I were a tank, I would not be inclined to bring a Rogue of any kind, but ESPECIALLY not Assassination. They can’t keep up with my pace, so why should I?
I want to say that Crimson Tempest originally spread bleeds to all targets in its first beta version… and I gotta say that does feel fair considering the ramp this class has and the fact that most other specs get instant damage going on 5-8+ targets. It wouldn’t solve our single target issues if fights last too long, but at least it would help a lot with AOE.
The worst part is that it’s boring. They could buff everything and I’m not sure I’d be interested still. Way too much of our gameplay went into just spamming envenom.
Plus we’re back to constantly getting knocked out of stealth early, good times all around.
The pacing is off and a lot of us agree on this for the spec doesn’t function well outside of a raid environment.
Lol. Stop it.
You’re the champion of flip flopping.
I’d like to see rogue get something for a raid buff that we can actually benefit from towards our groups damage and get us invited.
You know, my guess is that we’ll see some numerical improvements, and that’s a good thing if you’re looking for damage alone, but it’s hard to imagine how they’ll manage fundamental gameplay fixes after an alpha/beta period that seemed pretty committed to drastic change from the start. My thought is that anything like that may end up happening in 12.1 or beyond. Will they fix Sin? Well, yeah, maybe. Will they fix Sin on or near the 17th? I think we can go ahead and skip the Vegas odds on that one.
And this is saying nothing about the more abstract stuff. This isn’t the first time they’ve let Sin start a season so obviously in the breakdown lane, and, among other things, it causes significant issues for solo players looking to make headway in LFG. Significant. Even if a fix does arrive on or near the 17th, it isn’t really a matter of making the spec whole in the way it arguably should have been at expansion release, but a matter of giving the spec’s perceived value enough escape velocity to outpace the newfound points of bias in the community.
A fix is possible, but I wonder if they have enough of an outcry to actually make it happen. It feels like they should, but there’s also a lot of iffy and possibly well-paid optimism out there.
Some players have expressed that they DO like the current pacing of Assassination so maybe the devs are hesitant to change the pacing of Assassination.
I think the best middleground solution is to offer a talent choice for Assassination Rogues to speed up their rotation a bit and allow those that like the current slower pace to go all in with the current playstyle.
I guess a lot of my incredulity stems from the fact that most people that claim to like the new version don’t have many clear reasons for why that is. It’s a lot of platitudinous stuff like, “It just flows really well.” Or then there’s the irony that the clearest reasons fall short of actual reason, stuff like, “Whew! The newfangled bleed spreading means I don’t have to restealth!”
But of course we do still “need” Vanish for improved Garrote, right? But it doesn’t really translate into a lot numerically, so who cares–or will it? Will we care after new tuning is set in place? But we’re also sort of handed a net nerf because the loss of IC is theoretically like we can’t ever get a restealth to fan out improved garrotes in a single GCD anyway, so what are we celebrating exactly??
…!?
Some people do like the slower pace of Assassination aka TBC game play. But in my mind I thought we were passed that game play slow speed given the introduction of M+. The possibility is that some players want to play slower or they do not want Assassination to be as fast or close to Outlaw or Sub. Maybe these players feel that Assassination will lose damage for speed up game play. But from my view Assassination doesn’t hit like a mack truck like in TBC to justify the slower game play speed and positionals for damage (eg Mutilate).
M+ is 1000% go go go which is why needing to restealth did not work at all for Outlaw or Assassination for TWW. So we have a situation where one dev team is designing things that are diametrically opposed to what other devs are doing. The dev teams must communicate better on common goals and design vision for all classes in WoW instead of doing standalone projects IMO.
I mean, in fairness, neither of us can speak with any authority to how the devs delegate responsibility and communicate about any apparent contention in the design. All I can really point to is that losing stealth in keys wasn’t the worst thing in the world, so I have a hard time taking that observation seriously. Even if it were the worst thing in the world, I it’s the funniest mindset, for someone to be like, “Whew, I used to worry about landing IC spread from stealth, but now the power and impact of IC has been replaced with something worse, so I don’t need to worry about landing IC from stealth anymore!”
Madness.
It is an observation that WoW teams do A which contradicts B all the time.
A good example is TWW nerf to DPS self healing in the TWW beta, but they reverted the self healing nerfs for some DPS specs.
If you are gong to revert self healing nerfs to DPS specs it should be done to all DPS specs.
Ahh, right. I thought you meant that in the context of one team taking over for another and forging new pathways in the design with disregard for design that came previously. Design discrepancies happen a lot. Agreed.
The biggest discrepancy for Sin, for example, is that the design prescribes pooling without actually rewarding that balance with anything north of baseline. “Surely, I must be managing these resources for a big payoff. Surely, a full energy bar and stacks of tea will inspire fear in my enemies.” Nope.
Yes there has to be a payoff which is why Outlaw from TWW was reworked for MN. Right now Assassination has to much friction in game design that can easily disrupt its game play loop.
Granted Rogues are always designed with ramp up and building momentum due to energy and combo point system. However, I think the devs take it too far sometimes and introduce so much friction that it sometimes feels better to ignore it completely.
If ignoring a game play loop feels better or is even optimal then it is something fundamentally wrong going on and must be investigated and changed to encourage players to use the game play loop or in this case Apex talents.
Mafic bro rogues are looking good… Its a Huge W bro….
Surfs up dudes.
I wish idiots would face more repercussions.
Man really spent 6 months supporting the trash put out, spends 1 day at level 90 and then suddenly agrees it sucks. No. You deserve the worst. Enjoy your dog class.
Buffing venomous wounds is an easy thing for them to do but again there has been people vocal on the forums and discord that have said they like the slower pacing of Assassination like Whyspyr.
Will the devs make a compromise to satisfy both camps of players? We will have to wait and see to find out.
Dont deflect now. Whispyr always had horrible takes but you supported that one specifically. “Devs are just too busy to do this easy thing and its on the radar”. Reap what you sow bozo.