What has you so tired in a +15 that prevents you from pressing consecration?
Anyway, yea you shouldn’t give bad advice to someone who is trying to time 15s. If you don’t care, sure why not. But i’m not going to sit here and tell a dps to not use defensives / pool cds because you don’t need to in a 15.
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If the only argument you can come up with is from impatience, that being the “wasting globals”, then it’s not being made in good faith.
I’m talking below 15+.
False equivalence.
i don’t even know why you’re saying impatience like i’m even considering patience
bad advice is bad bro, doesn’t matter.
When I say the words “wasting globals” it’s when you have downtime. You’re just standing there like an npc, not doing dmg, not healing, nothing is happening, you’re just afk. This is bad, this will always be bad, there is no way you can spin it so that it’s not bad.
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I agree. There’s a lot of content in this game where optimal play is not rquired.
Heavily disagree on this. DPS are the most numerous players in a group and typically below the healers in res priority, but that does not make them expendable. Good DPS players are just as hard to come by as good healers and you can definitely feel their presence. Trying to do a raid fight where you had 2 or 3 early DPS deaths feels very different from the same fight where no one dies.
I disagree with this as well. As my counterargument, with the caveat that everyone is being kept alive with both the damaging healer and the non-damaging healer, can you explain to me why the non-damaging healer is a better asset to the group? Or barring that, can you explain to me how the non-damaging healer matches the utility contribution that the damage from the other healer represents?
Better players use their entire toolkit and contribute to the group in any way they can. If two DPS players output the same damage, but one uses their CC tools, defensives, and party utility in powerful ways to aid the group, I definitely consider the later player a stronger asset to the team. In fact, there’s even a margin where I would still say as much even if that player did less damage than the other. The same holds true for healers. Keeping everyone alive is the bare minimum of healer competency. It does not mean there is no more space for another healer to offer more to the group and damage is one of the forms that can take.
see like people say something like this and it really just makes me so confused. like what are you even saying right now lmao. yes it obviously makes them a better healer. like what am i reading
Every 2.5s modified by haste you are going to spend a GCD whether you like it or not. If that time period goes by and you pushed nothing, you have wasted the GCD. It is better to spend that GCD on damage than on nothing.
This goes back to the cardinal rule of good MMO play. ABC - Always Be Casting. It’s true for every spec, healers included. If you’re not casting anything, then you need a very good reason as to why “nothing” is more valuable than all of the other buttons you could be pushing right now.
I don’t think this is as common as it seems to be implied in this thread. I’ve seen it happening zero times. What I’ve seen is people crap on a healer in a +13 due to not being able to heal the party through choke points (not using their healing CDs in difficult pulls), but not for not doing damage.
Now, you’re right in that “pushing M+” is difficult to define. I don’t think it can be defined in a single limit, though. I think it’s more appropriate to consider it a continuum.
A +5 is probably “casual”, but if the whole party is under geared, then you might need to take it somewhat seriously. If the entire group outgears the keystone, then yeah, it’s casual as hell. I think the lower limit for people taking mythic more serious is somewhere between +13 and +14 (again, as a continuum, rather than a rigid limit). Of course, that’s not “high end”, but not everyone is at high end levels.
You might consider a +13 as very casual, but for some people it might be a struggling point. Also, there’s several people pushing for their KSM. This is of course season dependent. In season 1, completing a +15 was a difficult goal for many groups, but in season 3 it was casual for most.
I can understand the frustration of a capable player running a +15 on a lower geared alt, making their best effort, and having it depleted because people weren’t taking it seriously. Of course, I never condone harassing other players, but I understand the frustration.
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All this thread is a bunch of people trying to justify doing something worse for the group. I’m sorry but there is no justification for something just being objectively worse. Doesn’t matter what words you use, what you call me as a player, don’t care. You’re wrong. Deal with it
just keep moving the goal post.
if you tried like this in m+ people wouldn’t think you were being lazy.
Did a M0 ToP yesterday on my 289 warrior (for mog, don’t ask). Between me and the somewhat geared tank, we could have duo’d the place.
Healer at one point asks “Why did you even bring me ?”
He DPS’d. Because there was nothing else to do really. Drop consecrate, Holy Shock → CS → Judge → Light of Dawn rotation, and those LoD were just massive overheal.
I don’t get it, there’s nothing else to do, what are you expecting to do ? Just pump mana into overhealing ? Just sit there AFK ?
At least try to contribute same as everyone else.
While healers are indeed in higher demand than DPSs, I would still consider a healer a bad player if they go with a diva mentality.
Actually, I wouldn’t condone anyone going with a diva mentality to a pug, regardless of their role.
And that comes from someone who plays healers and tanks almost exclusively.
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This post is exactly why I don’t do mythic plus, holypoo you have to dps while you heal? No thank you. I already get yelled at enough for not healing people in mythic 0s HAHAHA good luck getting me to DPS on-top of it.
Hunters can faceroll/afk during mythics but healers have to pick up their slack? No TY
Hunters AFKing during a M+ is just as bad as a healer doing so. My expectations that every player contributes as much as they can with their toolkit does not stop at healers, I expect it of Hunters as well.
The lesson of this thread really should be that just like there can be good and bad DPS players, there can be good and bad healer players as well. Healers are not a special unicorn that graces us with their simple presence. I wouldn’t have thought any of this was a revelation but the fact is that contributing damage when healing isn’t required is one way that a healer can distinguish themselves as being a stronger player than another one.
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Why would someone play a healer, only not to heal? Take Kara, Moroes or Shade of Medivh for example. Contrast that with something Viz’aduum or Mana Devourer.
You just need enough damage that most people can choose to forgo doing damage as a healer.
Because that’s pretty much what this Pro Healer-DPS are. If not (but not limited to) incompetence in their DPS role. As demonstrated with their false equivalences to DPS role without realizing the context of why they need to perform such things.
I doubt that. Otherwise you wouldn’t be sitting here giving bad advice yourself about healer DPS.
I don’t think you know what Bad Advice looks like at this point.
And you use that downtime to ensure people don’t die or ensure people are healed in that time.
So you’re impatient then. You can make all these subjective gripes, but that’s ultimately what these complaints you’re making here are; subjective.
This is only bad if you’re impatient.
How many DPS specs to how many Healer/tank specs again?.. How many classes that are just staright up DPS specs though and though?
Are you seriously going to disagree with this?
They can focus better on people’s health and keep everybody alive. If everybody is kept alive, and that healer has tons of downtime, what’s the actual problem here other then you being impatient?
Not Healer DPS. Because that’s never has been required to this degree as of today back then.
Healers are still contributing to the group regardless if their DPSing as healers or not.
False equivalence. As i said before, the DPS are highly replaceable, and that Healers don’t have the same roles (And shouldn’t because this isn’t overwatch) as the DPS that being doing damage. Everybody needs to do CC, use defensive, party utility and interrupt. Healers only need to heal, DPS need to DPS, and Tank need to control agro and essentially be damage sponges.
I do not believe you, unless you’re completely fine with Healers just auto-attacking the boss at melee range while giving out heals.
If everybody is kept alive, then what is the actual problem here? The Healer done more then it’s job by keeping everybody alive, and you’re overhere pretty much spitting on the healer and telling them… “NO DO MORE!! IT’S YOUR JOB”…
What is there to be confused about? What i’ve said was clear. If you can’t understand my simple to understand thoughts on this, then that’s on you.
You keep using the same “agrument of impatience” that Anxxy and a lot of other pro-healer dps keep on using. What do you got left? 
Ahh yes, because nothing makes much seriously wonder why their even playing MMO’s at all, if they actually think like this with this phrase in mind.
People, myself included, have given you plenty of good reasons why it’s best to hold off to ensure people’s survival, rather then just push buttons mindlessly like it’s a Call of Duty game, just because you think 0.2 seconds of downtime is being AFK due to that person’s own impatience.
If you think there’s no good reasons for why after that, then i don’t think your pro healer dps stance is coming from good faith anymore.
Some people seem to be afraid that pressing a damage key bind in their keyboards might break their nails or ruin their manicure or something.
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I don’t know why you just typed all that because you’re simply wrong and there’s nothing you can say that will change that you’re wrong. Nothing you can say to me changes the fact that you’re wrong, there is just no conversation here. Sorry to tell you, your opinion is just wrong. I’m not going to give bad advice to someone who wants to improve, you’re lost. Please don’t give people bad advice on the forums.
I have explained multiple times why I tell healers to dps, it makes sense if they actually want to not be an average healer, it’s better for the group. I don’t need to explain further, this is all the information you need.
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For people complaining about having too much to manage while healing, which is the majority of healers not wanting to do DPS, this is a bad idea.
I spent years in the land of ESO, where buffs are king and never last more than 7-10sec at the most, and friend, lemme tell ya, it is not the way to reduce the APM expected of you. It is also not the way to be respected for more heals; you become a buff-bot, and it’s most of your rotation, and it sucks.
So you just sit there if no damage is being dealt to your party? You literally just sit there looking at your screen and moving your character? LOL
You should be PRODUCTIVE if the situation allows. If you are sitting there with nothing to heal, and you aren’t DPSing, you aren’t a healer at that time, you are a warm body being carried.
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