Another "neutral" alliance quest giver expansion?

I’ve had discussions with Merìngue in my thread. My biggest problem is - who cares who had more story time in the past expansions? Most of people’s gripes now, is about the future one(s).

No matter what any poster says, the Alliance hasn’t ever been in the place that the Horde is now. I feel like I’ve had to express it a thousand times up to now - but playing Horde sucks because we’ve been left in limbo. BFA/Shadowlands left us all kinds of screwed up, with almost all of our characters dead, and there have been few moves for Blizz to rectify that, at all.

That’s not a point I’m willing to concede on. Blizzard left the Horde in a very awkward spot, and we’ve been moldering ever since. Alliance hasn’t always had it peachy, but I can guarantee they’ve never been left in the state the Horde is now.

Going into another expansion where we do the neutral stuff, without any efforts of rebuilding at least parts of the faction and it’s extremely thin cast feels terrible.

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I wouldn’t worry too much. They already showed that they are pushing the Goblin’s lore forward with Gazlowe taking leadership in TWW while Thrall’s presence may serve to develop his views on the new Horde leadership style. Midnight will have lots of Blood Elf content, no doubt with potentially Nightborne developments, the Forsaken are due a full reclamation of Undercity and Lordaeron as a whole as they shift their personality away from just “servants of the Lich Queen”.

I fully agree with you that the Horde state right now is in a weird spot of shifting themes and unresolved conflicts but I fully expect them to adress that at multiple points in the upcoming saga. I believe they chose some of their most popular characters to start this shift in expansion design exactly because of their marketability. Thrall and Jaina have been popular since Warcraft 3 days, Khadgar was massively popular in one of WoW’s highpoints in Legion as well as being a known neutral character and Anduin had a pretty big moment of “beliefs challenged” in Shadowlands and therefore needs to finish his character arc.

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I don’t want to tear you down. You seem to be coming from a legitimately good place, and we have so few of those posters. But, just.

I am so tired of expecting them to address things. They never do unless it’s to make the Horde villainous, stupid, weak, or villainously stupid and weak. I’ve been Wait and Seeing :tm: since Legion.

I am so done with Wait and See :tm:.

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We are kinda in a spot for horde development where we can wait and see, or quit. As much as I dislike that… the earliest we are likely to see development on that front is Midnight, unless 11.1 or 11.2 surprises me.

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Man, I hope so. I hope it’s updated and shown in game. I’m never, ever, going back to Orgrimmar if they update Undercity/Lordaeron(Yeah, I know you can use the bronze dragon NPC to go back to before it was blighted, but it isn’t the same without players there.)

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I am honestly wondering if they will leave undercity abandoned as a relic of their time serving Sylvanas, and make a cool surface city with forsaken themes.

And for sure in Midnight we will see Silvermoon City likely in the same scale and scope as we did Suramar in Legion.

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Which is why I’m just playing Alliance next expansion. Blood/High/Void(despite the latter being a little dumb) are my favorite race tied with Draenei. And since I can play the elves on either faction, Draenei on Alliance, and still raid with all my friends - it doesn’t matter so much, I think.

Still not going to stop lamenting the horrible place the Horde is in, though. Because as much as I enjoy the Alliance, I think my heart will always be Horde. It was from the beginning; since Vanilla.

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That our first glimpse of Midnight was a story about Alleria, Turalyon, and Arator in the neutral Silvermoon they’ve been slowly conditioning us to accept doesn’t exactly fill me with hope, but as a BC blood elf baby I can’t not play one when we head back up north. However horrendously the race gets villain-batted and/or neutralized.

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Well, it’s one of those things, in order for the Horde to be villainous, stupid, weak and what have you, the Alliance had to share in these moments, using BFA as an example, all that the Alliance did, even contrary to their king’s best wishes, was push the Zandalari into the Horde’s arms, even when they had the intel that Rastakhan was an stubborn old goat that just wanted everyone outsider to leave Zandalar, so they blow up some of their ships(That didn’t really matter at all in the end other than make Kul’tiras magically recovered fleet slightly better) and kill Rastakhan to put his VERY Horde-supportive daughter in the throne, which, lo and behold, causes the Zandalari to join the Horde.

All this to say, is that the problem with faction conflict, is that in order for it to work, both sides have to be dumb as rocks, otherwise there is no tension, since no side can win, the problem is, they chose the Horde to be both active and therefore villainous twice, while the Alliance ended up being reactive and therefore heroic because we usually see the defenders as “good guys”.

With that said, Blizzard has been expressing a lot lately that they don’t want to make the Horde feel left out, which is why I am hopeful, yes, they have had a habit of saying things and not doing them for a while, but that was precisely what got them into Shadowlands so I think they are ready to change their ways in that regard, if the way they handled Dragonflight is anything to go by.

I haven’t been into the faction conflict stuff for a while, even if I may have gone a bit “bleeding blue” in early BFA because of the War of Thorns, so I want to see the Horde have a pretty good foundation again just as much as I want the Alliance to do something other than just reacting to whatever the Horde is doing, so I will keep hoping for developments, on both sides, if they conclude this saga and the Horde is left in the same “limbo” as Salindryss put it, then yeah, I would probably feel really discouraged.

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You know they’re going to bring Sylv back, though. To defend her homeland, again. Not that I know how to feel about that; and despite her technically not being High Elf anymore, but rather Forsaken… I don’t know.
I secretly hope that with Metzen steering the ship, we get a coherent Sylvanas. If it is indeed her last ride out into the sunset; I hope it’s an epic and well-crafted one,(that’s just my personal speculation.)
I loved her so much early on and loathed what the writers did to her later. I know there’s all kinds of… Shenanigans involved, as some of the posters here have insinuated. If that truly is the case, I hope they at least do her right next time.

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Just so you know, I was chomping at the bit. Probably just as angry as you were because of that whole nonsense. I loathed every single second of it, and I refuse to ever play a faction that participates in genocide like that again.
I remember playing the Alliance side of it and seeing the quest set you up to save everyone in Darnassus and time is constantly ticking down; and you, as a player, realize you can’t possibly save them all. That you’re not meant to. My heart still aches at that.

That’s not the kind of thing I signed up for when I started playing Horde. And I still loathe that the narrative direction for my character’s agency was robbed from me, because I hated every second of that crap.

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Yeah, that was awful depending on what you wanted out of the Horde, it’s even wilder that they had no alternatives other than sparing some of the civilians or guards, not that it mattered much anyways, because I think canonically the blood elf accompanying you kill them regardless since on the Alliance-side they were all dead.

I just can’t imagine a Tauren Druid, an Orc Shaman that was proud of the path of wisdom Thrall took in the early days of the new Horde, a young Blood Elf that held no contempt for the Kaldorei, etc, ever being okay with what happened in there and yet, if they wanted the rewards, they had to participate on that event regardless.

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From what people posted from the beta, it doesn’t seem like much so far.

I’m personally not counting on this. Because people told us there would be Baine stuff in DF and it turned out to be one side quest. The only thing we got in two years. Considering the Alleria short story, I’m expecting all the Silvermoon focus to be on her. Undercity has had a broken flight point since BFA in it’s original instance. That shows how much Blizz cares about it. I think it’ll just stay in it’s unblighted state. Especially since it already has three instances. I don’t think they’d create a fourth.

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I’v said it before but i rememeber the lead up to the WoT being me coping that it totally won’t be sylvanas who burns the tree and i clung to the interview where they said she wouldn’t and then the night finally came and when she burned it i could do nothing but laugh, it was a true joker moment, still went loyalist though.

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I did it one time for both sides. Like you said, partially for the rewards. Partially for understanding the awful narrative direction the story was going in.

It, in some ways, reminds me of the first Bioshock. Being led along a path and doing things you think are in your control, but really aren’t. But that’s the only compliment I’ll give it because Bioshock isn’t an MMO and a sizeable portion of the population play Kaldorei - love their culture; their history, their themes - and their home.

And I’m not being glib when I say it traumatized some of them, if a few of these posters are any indication. I don’t mean that in a mean spirited way. Lots of people find a home in the escapism that WoW offers. Life can be tough and I completely empathize with finding a home in your character, in that home away from home. And having that one burned? I mean, I get it.

Probably one of the more short-sighted decisions Blizz has done, in my opinion.

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Yeah, I guess I could see that. Really goes to show how much that Dev team lied constantly about what they were doing. “We promise, it’s not a retread of MoP!” “We promise, there’s more to it and Sylvanas isn’t just being a spiteful jerk!”

Lies on top of a mountain of lies. Still never went loyalist, though. I mean, I watched the videos so I could get a perspective. But by that point, she wasn’t the Sylvanas I adored so much, because of whatever nonsense was happening at Blizzard at the time.

Here’s to hoping in the future that not all of our female characters are Bipolar AF whenever the plot calls for tension.

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Here’s one for the Jaina that could have been :frowning:

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Were that true, would they have built yet another fully, completely alliance only expansion with no horde at all until the end of the leveling experience?

again, I’m not trying to take you out at the knees. I just don’t trust them at all.

Past behavior is the best predictor of current and future behavior.

And they cut Thrall out of so many images.

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Well, nothing either of us can do but wait to see how they handle things, I will remain hopeful for the time being, if I see nothing meaningful up until Midnight then it is what it is.

The optimistic side of me looks at undermine being keyed as the next big patch and thinks there’ll be some actual horde content

The pessimistic side of me thinks it’ll be a Mechagon-esque sideshow that barely matters and Midnight is going to bend over backwards to slobber all over Veressa and Umbric.

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