Czajen is likely Trump trolling us in his spare time as President of the United States of America. Oh, Trump, you silly boy.
I can, and I do. Wrong is wrong, no matter the justification. It’s evil on the premise that we’re more important than you. It’s a mitigating factor, but it’s still savagely evil.
Arthas was not the Lich King originally. It was the plague of undeath and frostmourne that were somehow involved in his fall.
As for the Night Elves, they were always a bit warlike. Dunno why.
Poisoning the well a bit, aren’t we? Also, we’re discussing punishment for crimes committed, not crimes imagined. Enormous difference, not that I would expect you to understand or acknowledge it.
So essentially, "Sorry Horde players, you chose the wrong faction. Let us kill off whats left of your representation in game and “allow” you to be the side-kicks of your own stories from now on? If you want to play our future installments, just be prepared to know that you’re paying real money for the Alliance’s storyline." Hell, if that’s the route they’re going, they better give us Hordies a discount on our monthly sub. ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
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So the alliance are evil because of Dalaran, camp Taurajo and the Stormheim incident? I mean you can try to justify it but wrong is wrong, no matter the justification.
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Not necessarily going forward in general.
What I mean is that right now we have a story that really needs to have consequences. The Horde, lore wise, has to pay for Teldrassil.
Does that mean that Horde can’t be relevant? No. They can absolutely write setting-appropriate situations into motion that give the Horde genuine air time without being the villains.
I’m simply saying that right now the Horde, overall, isn’t in a good place. That’s unfortunate, but they need to stick to the story they’re writing. Breaking free of it to appease the fans will only muddy the story, and create glaring plot holes that will do nothing except fuel the rampant twisting of lore that’s already so common.
They need to create new, meaningful, Horde heroes. They really ought to bring some of the weaker ones that exist into the fore and give them genuine story and progression. They need to make the Horde something worth being in, because right now all it is is a villain machine. They need to finish what they started, and do so lore appropriately, but they don’t need to keep doing it in the future.
And it already did
As far as I’ve seen only a handful of Horde players, mostly the ones who don’t want the Horde to get beat up any more than it has been, are actually saying that killing a single Val’kyr is enough. It really seems more like the Horde is saying “look we’re not doing well right now, so you got revenge” but that’s not really true. The Alliance is “winning”, but that’s not the same as the Night Elves getting revenge.
I’m simply not convinced that it’s enough payment for the loss of what amounts to an entire nations worth of women and children all being burned alive. Tyrande going off and doing some completely out of left field “night warrior” shenanigans and then killing a few nobodies isn’t revenge. That’s the warm up, but it’s all we’re getting.
Or have you not seen how many people are angered that the Night Elves story is basically declared “wrapped up”?
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Killing a Val’kyr? Is that all the alliance has done as a result of Teldrassil?
No i dont think so
Don’t conflate all of the Alliance with what I’m saying. I’m saying The Night Elves need their reparations.
There are two factions here, the Alliance, and the Night Elves themselves. The “Alliance” has made a hasty response to the declaration of War, but the Night Elves themselves have basically been given nothing.
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So the horde have to pay two separate punishments? Wow, no wonder why the alliance are never pleased with anything. It has to meet the subjective needs of all their individual factions on top of the whole alliance
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You’re the one making assumptions. You think exiling will be a painless process met with no complaints or complications? The epitome of naivety.
I’m not sure if you’re being intentionally dense or willfully ignorant. 
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Really? You’re bringing up that tired Taurajo again? Extremely underwhelming. Taurajo was bad information. Your own Baine acknowledged it as a legitimate military target.
Dalaran and Stormheim were not our best moments, and those involved should be punished, but they don’t REMOTELY compare to Teldressil, Theramore, the road in HellFire Peninsula and other inexcusable actions perpetrated by the horde. The difference is scale, and scale is important. When the horde commit crimes, they do so on a massive scale. When the Alliance do, not so much.
Yeah … because Blizzard has SUCH a great legacy at absolutely destroying our faction and then attempting to build it back up again. They didn’t render an ENTIRE Founder race completely valueless and worthless for over two years, because they wanted to shove Mrs Conflict in the drivers seat (the Darkspear STILL do not have an official leader installed, even now).
Blizz kills off Horde A and B listers like its going out of style and then puts absolutely no friggen effort and time to fix what they broke (and if the WERE going to do that, to put in the resources desperately needed to do that after several rounds of shattering us to pieces, the Alliance fanbase would complain insistently about “Horde Bias” (because, trust me, there aren’t any replacements set up on our side already for many of the characters that Alliance fans are calling for consequences on; so it would take a TON of time and money to fix whats broken).
That doesn’t even handle the absolutely ABSURD problems stemming from the MASSIVE power imbalance between the two factions, where Blizz forced the Horde to play the antagonists in another world war that we’re constantly told we could NEVER hope to win. When looking at the power-fantasies of both factions, the Alliance is just operating on an entirely different genre of fantasy than the Horde; while they continue to have that fantasy amplified, the Horde continues to get weaker (because, again, Blizz just hates putting effort in fixing us when they break us).
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Funniest part is I bet we’d still get “HORDE BIAS” threads.
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You misunderstand. The Horde and Alliance are at war for control of all of Azeroth at this point. The war stopped being about the Night Elves pretty much immediately, and became a matter of Faction vs Faction.
You’re trying to argue that the whole War is about the Night Elves, but even in the early part of our campaign, Anduin makes it clear. The Alliance had no spare forces to assist the Night Elves in Darkshore, because a war was brewing and he didn’t consider it important -enough-. The Alliance literally didn’t even help. All they got was token assistance from the Worgen because the Worgen wouldn’t just stand by.
This war? The Alliance didn’t even have time to help the Night Elves with the exact situation you claim the war is about. Funny that.
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Kind of curious. Why horde have to pay? It was brought down during a war. It just seems weird. If that is true then the alliance have to pay for attacking the fox people and burning of their home and the trolls for killing their king. Both were not aligned with the horde and only trolls are now. It just not seem justified for one and ignoring the other. Especially when the now redacted cries inside been moved from fox people homes being burned.
It would also seem weird as the alliance had a hand in the destruction of UC. They stayed and claimed the area as a win. A loss there would be forsaken retaining control of area and rebuilding. That was lost to forsaken. See where I am going. Everyone has a loss what makes this one so special?
BTW: There have been tons of things ask by and given by dev including 4 rewrites of the first patch that pushed it past it due date.
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No, I don’t. But the horde, the orcs in particular, cannot be trusted. They have committed horrible crimes against us time, and time, and time, and time, and time again.
This would cause me to permanently unsub.
I’d argue that the Night Elves were special because it was unprovoked. Sylvanas just completely out of nowhere decides to take it.
Not to mention that fact that no singular event beyond the burning of Teldrassil involved such massive loss of life. If you play through the story and see how it goes down, it’s apparent that basically only a handful of people actually escaped. It was a losing battle the moment we tried to save people.
The vast majority of the Night Elves, as a nation, died in that event. No other situation during this war has been that destructive, that unprovoked, nor that amoral.