Anduin needs to pull one over on Sylvanas

I’m not a fan of Anduin being the Grand High Poobah King of the Alliance. I don’t think the Alliance should have a singular leader. Creating a ‘Blue Warchief’ back in Wrath diminished the Alliance and stripped most of the agency from the member races, helping to turn it into the ‘humans and friends’ show we’ve got going now. That being said, the Alliance has a blue warchief whether I like it or not, and it’s Anduin, and Anduin has been absolute garbage against Sylvanas thus far.

An argument could be made that the whole War of Thorns thing falls on Mathias Shaw, and Tyrande for being idiots and forgetting that armies are capable of turning north at the Crossroads and going straight into night elf land if it seems like a more convenient target, and strategic planning involves thinking of what your opponent can do, rather than just what you think they’ll do. Anduin however, signed off on it, and takes personal responsibility for the results of that train-wreck. Still, it’s pretty forgivable.

Lordaeron though was just shameful. It was a joke to say the least of it. Anduin takes personal command, and winds up nearly botching the entire thing right off in the CGI by dying and was only spared because Saurfang was all “I hoped you’d win.” In the scenario it was even worse, when he came in completely unprepared for the traditional Forsaken blight. He could have easily been spun to competency if Jaina and the Void Elves were part of the plan, but for dramatic purposes, they came in as surprises, and he was left looking like a total moron that was constantly bailed by his allies.

In the war itself? His masterstroke for dealing with Sylvanas was releasing Saurfang. That’s a diplomatic thing to do, and might be used as an argument towards his character being less a strategist and more a diplomat, but Saurfang’s actions are his own, and not a reflection of Anduin’s actual ability. Dazal’alor had nothing to do with him or his planning, and what’s more, he was completely wrong about the importance of getting to Darkshore and opening it up as a contested front, completely being blindsided by Sylvanas raising the dead.

Thus far, it seems like Sylvanas has Anduin and his thought patterns completely analyzed, to the point where it’s one of the Alliance’s greatest weapons that he’s so rarely actively involved, and his allies never tell him what they’re doing. If Anduin doesn’t know it, Sylvanas doesn’t know it apparently.

Right now the speculation is on Anduin diverting to Thunder Bluff, and Sylvanas blindsiding him once again and hitting Stormwind instead. That makes sense. It’s literally what Sylvanas has done to Anduin like, three times so far this expansion. There’s got to be a point where he says ‘no more’ and realizes just how predictable he’s being, and sets a trap of his own relying on Sylvanas’ analysis of his character.

The whole ‘a kid looking to prove himself and become a man’ thing is a neat character arc and all, but it’s not one the leader of an entire faction made up of races where some are in the ‘thousands of years old’ range should be going through. It’s about time that he shows some basic actual competency at his job as Blue Warchief.

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Hurry up and finish so we can start arguing/trolling.

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Sorry about that, basically finished now! - That certainly made me speed up the writing.

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He will end up asking for peace when the horde has destroyed everything the alliance once had.

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I expect Anduin to make mistakes. He is still pretty fresh and inexperienced at being in the front lines. I wouldn’t mind him stepping down as the leader of the Alliance and letting someone else take the mantle for now.

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When 90% of what you do is mistakes odds are you were not ready for leadership and should let someone more qualified take over.

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They should have opened with that if they were going to do it, and I’d have rather gladly accepted it, as it would have been an interesting thing to do, giving another Alliance leader the reigns rather than keep the camera locked on Anduin. Sadly we’re stuck on the Anduin train, and this train has no brakes.

Regarding mistakes, Anduin’s made mistakes. He’s had his mistake times. MoP was pretty much his coming of age story (on a sidenote, why are we getting a second coming of age for Anduin when he’s already been through this once? You don’t get to repeat your Pandaren roadtrip to adulthood multiple times in the middle of a war). He got beaten up pretty badly during the Bell incident, and by saving Garrosh’s life, he was partially responsible for the Iron Horde. Likewise he got another moment in Legion to ‘take up the mantle’.

Now he’s just making more and more. I’m not asking for perfection from him, just basic competency at his job. Maybe the ability to think through an action before taking it.

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…it’s almost like this whole story is just a badly redone MoP, hmmmm…

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I mean, I know in concept that BFA is just a retread of MoP, but I actually hadn’t thought that Anduin’s character arc was part of the copy-paste. That makes entirely too much weird sense.

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MoP was more a reckless teenager moment. Legion seemed more coming of age and picking up the mantle. Quickly at that. The loss of his father taught him what he really carried on his shoulders. He just wasn’t ready for it. I would want Tyrande to take over as leader of the alliance. She would make it as aggressive as the Horde. Let the true war start then.

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18 year old church boy outsmarting a several thousand year old military general? Keep it. Anduin has exactly one flaw and it’s that he’s completely clueless when it comes to military matters. He should keep that flaw at least until he finds another, he’s already bordering on insufferable in his perfection.

Anduin turning Saurfang on Sylvanas is a very good move that plays to his strengths (connecting with people) since he’s basically getting the Horde to tear itself apart without lifting a single Alliance finger. That is his big move against her.

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The Alliance shouldn’t have a leader capable of starting an aggressive war. The Alliance is an alliance. It was started for the sake of mutual defense. That being said, if Anduin did wind up giving up the mantle and letting another leader take over, they’d be able to prosecute the war in a more aggressive manner, and that would certainly be interesting. Though I worry he’d just turn into the Alliance’s Baine. And no one needs a Baine on their team.

We’re not exactly talking about ‘tactical genius’ level stuff here. Strategy is the broad strokes, and Sylvanas has been playing a pretty risky game in relying entirely on her ability to predict what Anduin does. All it takes is him realizing that Sylvanas plans around his nature, and that he could throw her off by doing something uncharacteristic, or doing something characteristic and planning for her exploitation of it. It’s not complex. It would simply demonstrate that Anduin can be a military leader, as that’s his position, and while him stepping down from it would be awesome, apparently that’s not how this works and rulership over the Alliance is dynastic.

What’s more, she’s hardly perfect. Assuming she meant what she said and thought about dividing the Alliance with Teldrassil, she badly miscalculated. Likewise, she’s pretty blind to the actions of non-Anduins. Dazal’alor came out of nowhere, and sunk the Horde’s biggest advantage (quite literally). These days she’s relying on deus ex dagger rather than strategic acumen.

I’ll applaud Sylvanas though. The War of Thorns, while it shouldn’t have worked and relied on the total idiocy of her opposition, was a neat concept. It was a good old fashioned forking, where you give your opponent two unpalatable choices (Azerite in Silithus, or defending Ashenvale), and then you take the piece they didn’t save. Of course, it wasn’t presented in that fashion. The Alliance was so stupid that they didn’t even see the choice presented, and went all in one way.

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Having a “coming of age” moment for someone in charge is rather negligent. Anduins experience as high king so far has been a textbook example of why birthright is not a valid qualification for leadership.

High king also undermines the entire philosophy behind the alliance as well, but that’s a horse that’s been touched on enough.

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love this!

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I’m saying that Anduin has precious few flaws (1 really) and that if he is now a good military strategist then he has no flaws whatsoever. They should just do away with High King all together and give the Alliance a military general in wartime (it should not be Anduin).

I don’t think she’s perfect. I’m fine with basically anyone else of prominence in the Alliance pulling one over on her (others already have).

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The Alliance shouldn’t have a warchief but if it has to it definitely shouldn’t be some kid that became king yesterday, just because he came from the loins of the guy that passed the High King trials or whatever that was.

I’d sooner put Tyrande, Mekkatorque, or the Council of Three Hammers in that position. Genn is iffy because of the whole leaving the Lordaeron Alliance thing, Velen is an alien who lives in a broken spaceship and pandas aren’t real. Mekkatorque would probably be the best one, since he’s the only remaining leader who’s been with the Alliance throughout it’s entire history.

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I’m not asking for genius here so much as basic competence. Like, the sort of competence you’d see from a seven year-old you’d just tricked the same way three times in a row and finally figures out what you’re doing. Or someone who’s capable of thinking ‘if I do this, what will my opponent be able to do?’. Or “These people spent years inventing and stocking up blight, and to get to Lordaeron I literally had to go by the blighted, oozing ruins of Southshore. They’re probably going to use Blight.” Like, I’m talking basic levels of human intelligence.

It’s not exactly rocket science for Anduin to go “Sylvanas is targeting Thunder Bluff because of Baine! We’d better go to defend it and - waiiiit a second, haven’t I been here before? If I go all-in on this, she’s going to attack Stormwind or something. Wait a second, I could set a trap using that.” And then going to more competent people for that purpose.

It’s clear they’re never getting Anduin out of that role, no matter how much I hate him in it, so he needs a win, or at least something that can be used to show the Alliance that he’s not pants-on-head stupid when it comes to military matters. Again, not asking for brilliance here.

My problem might just be with the story in general, where because of the simplicity, the definition of a ‘clever strategy’ gets really dumbed down. Like, for Sylvanas’ plans to work usually, it requires everyone else to be blind to basic reality, but in-universe it’s brilliant. It’s like everyone is wearing those drunk-goggles.

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This. For two reasons.

One, peerless, outsmart everyone characters are annoying to begin with. It’s worse than “power of friendship” crap, because it almost always devalues whoever they are fighting, which brings me to the second reason.

Blizz can’t write smart actions. I’m not saying the writers are dumb, far from it. I am saying that, perhaps due to the retrained nature of the medium, perhaps due to it being a game where customers are invested against one another’s preferences, or whatever other reason, they can’t do it.

So when Sylvanas plays 4D chess and outsmarts every other character, including the Horde PC, this is accomplished by Sylvanas having the intelligence to play checkers, and everyone else caps out at Hungry Hungry Hippos. It is terrible for the setting, because it makes every other character a pants on head idiot who at best couldn’t handle the truth.

So to the OP’s point, I don’t need Anduin to pull one over on her.

I need anyone at all, preferably several anyones.

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i am fine with him having flaws.
i am fine that blizzard plays with his inexperience.

i am fine that he is still idealistic, he is young.
and i think that him using saurfang to start a rebellion and now bringing thrall is a mastermove.

The horde fight each other without the alliance even intervening.

i am not fine with putting him above everyone else.
i am not fine that we have sovereign kings or leaders bow to him.
or that he gets treated like the emperor.

he can be the guy in charge of diplomacy, but let the military commanders do the war.
the fact that the other leaders of the alliance let him lead the attack on lordaeron already make us look like clowns :clown_face:

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If I can claim a little knowledge of how Moira, the three hammer council, or Tyrande characters are, I can totally see them bypassing Anduin after those loses and asking for someone more competent and experienced to take lead.
I can totally see Gen playing the substitute father, constantly trying to convince Anduin of his own ideas and gently bypassing him when he won’t.
In short, Idk how he is still Leader. Maybe Aunt Jaina is keeping everyone on the line.

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