Well clearly he shouldn’t be in Stormwind.
It offends Horde players when the King of Stormwind is in Stormwind.
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I think the idea is that Anduin had a very minor appearance in the rescuing of talanji. He shows up on patrol once, says something, then never shows up again, compared to genn and jaina, who both actively chase you down, he is a non presence.
I know right? And where was he to protect he people of Stormwind from the (PiS) fire that literally put the city on the brink of destruction.
What if Jaina had been anywhere else? Where was the all powerful Priestadin to save his beloved city, was he still in his MLP riding around?
His presence is a curse to me at least, I hate him with so much passion. His actions make the work of seasoned commanders and veterans be completely worthless.
To be fair, how many times has Sylvanas appeared in the Horde story?
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Anduin’s personality shouldn’t change drastically from one patch to another. He’s been characterized the same way for… I think Cata or MoP? He’s been fairly consistent as a character for years, which is saying a lot when it comes to WoW’s main characters, which is almost something of a miracle considering how some characters’ characterization were butchered in less time.
The problem is that everything revolves around him. Everyone is ready to get down on their knees and do whatever he asks of them and rarely question him. He solves everyone’s problems just by being there. Warhawks like Varian, post-Theramore Jaina and Genn turned peaceful because Anduin didn’t like it when they were too brutal. I’m pretty sure Tyrande is the sole exception so far, telling him to shove it and taking her forces, along with anyone else willing to join her (the player and the Gilneans), to Darkshore.
Everyone trusts him implicitly as High King, the supreme commander of the Alliance military, even though he didn’t prepare for the Blight when attacking Lordaeron. Anyone who questions him gets their objections shot down, like at the end of Dazar’alor where Wyrmbane, Genn and Shaw suggest pressing the attack against the Zandalari, whom Anduin agrees will almost certainly be pushed into the arms of the Horde. Dazar’alor was a success because of a suicide mission in which one of the Lightforged was killed along with a lot of night elves and void elves, already few in number. At his own admission, Mekkatorque was a casualty of the battle. Yet despite the sacrifices, he won’t press forward against people who, if they weren’t already part of the Horde, will be tomorrow. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
The problem isn’t Anduin per se, it’s how everything and everyone revolves around him. People aren’t reacting to him how they should and he warps them to his own point of view with only a few words. That’s all on the writers.
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I think I mentioned it above but wanted to restate it: the problem with Anduin’s mistakes is they are all presented off screen or something happens that invalidates the mistake (Lordaeron). It needs to happen on screen. Like how Talanji fell for the feint in Nazmir which allowed the Alliance to Siege Dazar’alor and kill her father.
There also was the zandalari recruitment scenario where she struggled to become queen and many found her unworthy. (Not the loa)
As much as I’m not an Anduin fan, I’m slightly worried he is not going to be in 8.2 at all.
This is an interesting bit of fanfiction. Hypothetically, lets say that Anduin didn’t pursue peace and didn’t ‘underestimate the intentions of his adversaries.’
Does this magically make him able to see through the ploy that completely tricked his spymaster? Would he then be directing forces to reinforce Teldrassil on the off chance that they are the target of an invasion immediately, rather than concluding that Sylvanas is playing a longer game by directing her forces to consolidate Azerite resources in Silithus? Or would he have attacked the Horde pre-emptively, immediately following the events of Before the Storm, while his people were still recovering from the horror and death inflicted upon them by the Legion. A mistake here is asserted like it is fact, but to make it so requires that the person making the claim be allowed to write the lore.
Since you don’t write the lore, the question would be, is there any point where the lore actually says that Anduin made a mistake or did something wrong? Whether it be via narration or even from another character with a degree of expertise? So far I haven’t seen one, but maybe somebody who plays more on the Alliance side can offer it?
Actually, the far bigger change, when you take it all the way back from Reign of Chaos has been in Genn Greymane. He’s lost most of his pride, and his xenophobic isolationism. He’s not the man who had the Greymane Wall built.
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Of course he is not! And he is all the better for it considering his wall nearly destroyed his kingdom and indirectly lead to the death of his son.
Anduin blame himself, and that is important. Has any character in the Alliance had the same blame game? No one blames Gelbin for trusting Thermoplugg. Except for Sira, Tyrande has escape being blame for the loss of Teldrassil. Aside from a taunt from Illidan no one has actually blame Velen for trying to his/escape the Legion. Hell, if anyone wanted to try and blame Anduin it was Slyvanas!
That’s nice. And had you provided a citation so I could check the context I’m pretty sure I’d find out that nobody else does. Which means it wasn’t a mistake, it was humility. Humility is a virtue, the one opposite the flaw of arrogance.
Also by not citing a case so that I could look it up myself, you’re forcing me to take you at your word. And given that you’re the guy still trying to blame the Horde for Varian’s death long after that was canonically refuted, I can’t do that.
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The tragedy is that’s the entire reason Teldrassil happened, and its all the compensation that Blizzard feels the Night elves will need for their loss. Some kid feeling sad.
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Ohh, is that what he blames himself for? The big disastrous thing that only happened because Shaw was outsmarted, the fight against the Legion had destroyed so much of the Alliance’s fleet that they couldn’t effectively reinforce the Night Elves in time and various other variables none of which were his fault.
Well that’s perfect. Not only does he get to be humble and self reflective like a proper hero, but he didn’t even need to make a mistake or have any flaws to get there.
It’s my interpretation. It’s not fan fiction because I am not making anything up that didn’t happen in the story, I am interpreting the events and the lessons I took away from them. Yes, Anduin himself does show humility which you can say is in fact a virtue but he is still admitting he may have done something wrong and doubting himself. It’s in the Battle For Lordaeron ending cinematic - “I failed those who burned.”
As for the events of Before the Storm I have not read the book, only relevant plot points and yes it sounds like Anduin acted stupidly naive by having frigging Calia be there and inviting Forsaken to defect from Sylvanas. It’s Sylvanas. He should have known what she is capable of based on her history and information given to him by people like Genn Greymane.
As for what he could have done with regards to the War of Thorns? Yeah, maybe not command the entire night elf army to move into Silithus and leave their own homeland completely undefended when the Horde is right outside their border. Preemptive attack? No, but proper defense of all points which the Horde were likely to attack LIKE ASHENVALE RIGHT ON THEIR BORDER, would be a start.
As for him being a Hero? Yeah, that’s rather obvious. There are a lot of Heroes in this game who are similarly “flawless” in terms of the narrative never explicitly stating they made a mistake. I think aspects of Warcraft however are up to interpretation. Certainly many Sylvanas loyalists feel they are!
Anduin did invite Caelia there, but the invitation to defect and the consequences were all on her.
He should have probably foresaw the possibility.
You’re writing an interpretation into the story and presuming to tell us it’s correct. That’s fan fiction.
Self doubt is the reasonable course for anyone who isn’t over confident. It isn’t a flaw merely by existing, and only becomes a flaw if it prevents action and has negative effects. Can you think of a time where someone, in story, said that Anduin’s response was too slow and it costed lives?
And how many Alliance died due to Anduin’s ‘naive idealism?’ The answer is 0, no Alliance died. Sylvanas, however, lost quite a few people in the events of Before the Storm, and numerically was weaker because of it.
Sorry, Anduin trying to do the right thing, and it failing because of someone else’s actions, isn’t a flaw in the character.
Yeah, Anduin could have been even wiser and more intelligent than every other member of the Alliance, all of whom were tricked by a dedicated misinformation campaign. Falling for a well crafted lie is also not a flaw. However, the alternative you suggest would make Anduin even more perfect and insufferable than he already is.
Anduin doesn’t become a better written character just because you can show other characters, characters less shoved down our throats, are also bad.
Hmmm. No. I disagree. ![:grin:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/grin.png?v=6" ":grin:")
If a character tries to do the right thing when the right thing may not be the best course of action then it can be interpreted as a flaw in their character.
I agree, the Alliance are written completely incompetently when it comes to the build up to the War of Thorns. Anduin being as incompetent as the rest doesn’t make him flawless or make his decision making correct. When a massive army is marching in the Barrens, right on the border of Ashenvale, it is definitely a competent decision to leave Ashenvale completely militarily defenseless aside from some city guards. I mean, some spy information said they were never going to invade Ashenvale, and we know information from spies can never be faulty!
That is some screwy logic you’re attempting to employ. I guess you can interpret anything you want as a flaw that way.
Your plan now seems to be to expand the definition of flaw to be so broad as to mean simply less competent than an expert in the field. Good luck with that.
Ill reply later, thought i would segway for now and mention Anduin is joining the Nexus!
Anduin is definitely flawed. He thinks almost anyone can be redeemed if he just believes in them hard enough. While his “purity” does him credit in that he is likely the single most trusted person on Azeroth(Even Sylvanas worried that striking him down would only create more enemies and inspire her current ones), but Anduin suffers greatly from naivete. I just think his particular character make up isn’t particularly interesting. He’s very one note. Even in thinking Sylvanas can’t be redeemed and must be destroyed, he somehow manages to make it seem like he’s giving up. Just the impression I get.
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