I’d take that more as him being more respectful, finally a group of warriors that match his level of savagery in battle. And yes Grom is a terrible yardstick to compare an average orc soldier, cause he revels in battle to a great degree.
You know what? I think that’s a perfectly fair balance between both races and you’re right, it perfectly compliments the fighting style of both races 
2 Likes
Or maybe their Bluff was simply better than your Sense Motive.
1 Like
On the other hand, I’m glad that we’re not locked into that fetish trope.
Which isn’t bad but have you seen Shawn? He hides behind a custome tree made by some 5 years old for his school theater and was deceived by everyone and their grandmother twice(including taking a whole army to south and leaving a capital defenseless)
He’s only Human 
I’m talking about in real world context, not from a skill roll. Being tricked means you’re incompetent at reading people, and are thus gullible and easily fooled.
Or maybe the person who’s tricking you is good enough to trick some otherwise very smart people. It’s not always the victim’s fault as you seem to imply.
I know he tries it but I wanna see more higher standars or better yet just a classic frontal battle. That way both forces can show off their might and withdraw later
I mean…
I don’t know if you play Chess, but I do, and what I see is action on the wings being prioritized over action in the center. Unless you’ve got a good reason, it’s generally unadvisable to do that because you run the risk of all of your pieces being out of position as your opponent winds up a mating net. But I can get less theoretical and put it like this: The Horde’s bishop was pinning the knight to the queen. The Alliance’s knight was set up to effect a fork if that bishop moved to some of that side action, and should have kept it there to enforce that threat. Instead the Alliance took the knight after that sweet, sweet side action, and the bishop took the queen.
The proper move for both armies was to threaten to attack what the other army was protecting if either of them moved. It was a Mexican standoff pin, and the Alliance made the wrong move.
Let’s also examine the feint itself.
If Saurfang were to turn left, he would have to march south to the Thousand Needles, which is flooded - find boats or swim to Tanaris, march near Silithid Hives and Sand Trolls to Ungoro - march his army through THAT - march up a giant hill, and end up fresh for the fight in Silithus.
The Alliance believed that he would do this instead of turning right and beelining the queen. I don’t have words to describe that kind of thinking. It doesn’t feel like thinking to me.
Now try playing that chess when you can’t see most of the board and you don’t know where the pieces are.
Are you arguing that the Alliance was not aware that the Horde had an army in Orgrimmar?
Tyrande was successfully bluffed into committing her forces to Feralas for a push into Silithus. I leave to make your own conclusion to this. And I should remind you that she made that decision on her own before the conclave in Stormwind.
Keep in mind that at the outset, both factions were fighting with limited resources. Saurfang’s successful strategem was to get the Night Elves to deploy their forces in the wrong place.
1 Like
The way I sort of always perceived the NEs is that they are absolute monsters when they have the friendly terrain advantage. But more specifically, they aren’t exactly designed to “prevent” occupation outright. But rather to “deter” occupation, and in the few instances that fails make prolonged occupation absurdly costly and downright impossible. So, in the hypothetical that the Horde did try to occupy Teldrassil and the NEs did not surrender … holding that tree would be a Horde bloodbath. But, if the Horde has sufficient forces to overcome the deterrant element … its not impossible for them to attain that initial occupation.
The NEs outside of friendly terrain tho… I kind of feel like Liadrin was right on the money in Surumar. Where if you approach Tyrande as Horde all she does is complain that you and these mana-addicts are the threshold of the city of her birth. While if you approach Liadrin as Ally, she’s bitterly commenting on how outside of the Ancients the forces Tyrande brought with her were not suited for prolonged city sieges … which means her BEs would have to pick up the slack. In short, offensive wars don’t seem like the NEs forte. While defensive wars in friendly terrain will only get more overwhelming in their favor the longer they go.
5 Likes
I think it would be fair to say that they are geared to fight in their natural environment. Now could that change? I certainly think it should, but that should take place with the assistance of local allies and in a manner that’s set up. There are some holes that Draenei and Worgen could fill for example.
Re: Drahliana - I’m going to take things one step further than your implication. A Good War establishes that the Alliance had flooded Orgrimmar with spies and was aware of the size and strength of Saurfang’s army. So, it would appear that they were playing with a perfectly visible chessboard.
To be fair, until Blizz actually forgot about Azerite as a plot point … it was very apparent that the Horde could work wonders with the stuff. So its not as if the Alliance’s concern that the Horde (especially a Horde under Sylvanas) would get such a monumental supply of it like what can be found in Silithus was unfounded. Saurfang just used that and SI:7 being so obvious in Org to play them.
EDIT: That being said. Filling Org so full of SI:7 members that civilians were literally tripping over them to send the deliberate message that “we are always watching” … probably not the best move if you’re not trying to send the message of “we’re planning on attacking you”. Which played into Sylvie’s narrative for Saurfang quite nicely. As did Anduin’s lack of response to Stormheim.
Well, that’s what I meant by ultraspecialized. On the other hand, they didn’t do too badly against the Aquir in an open field, in a desert. i mean, its needet the full power of horde and alliance + dragons and powerups fromm everywhere together to face this enemy…the night elves and their dragon did it alone 1000 years ago. (4 dragons and the night elves against the aqir)
This is true. I think part of that is because the NEs are really built for defensive wars. Guerilla fighters and high mobility, with good sustain through druidcraft allows for a very hard group to pin down and excise. And ancients to pick up the slack. Its offensive wars that I don’t think the NEs have ever shown a particular strength for. Perhaps back when the Kaldorei Empire was slamming out trolls, but not the NEs at least.
In Silithus they attacked, that was an offensive war. I don’t even remember, didn’t they even push the insects back to Silithus?
They kept them contained behind the wall for the most part. And the dragons would swoop in and try to take out as many as they could.