I couldn’t agree with you more, particularly with the second paragraph.
I will say - I was initially going to mis-react to the comment about “heroes” - and was going to say that the game really shouldn’t have a “heroic” side between the factions. But, I get that this is an internal Horde distinction and… I still kind of disagree.
There should be room for people who want to be aggressive. I just think that such people need to be routed to content that’s built up around battlegrounds within believable, grounded conflicts. I certainly don’t want Blizzard to swoop in from on high and say “you’re a bad person for wanting to fight the faction rival!” Particularly when at the same time they’re marketing things like “it matters”.
In that sense - and yes, this is a tangent, if I had to rewrite BFA, yes, I would have the Alliance being the ones to move first. No, I don’t think that should end in a successful swiping of Forsaken land - I think the Forsaken should be able to resist the push, but you could have built smaller-scale content around that conflict, and again, use it to route people to battlegrounds while bringing in KT and Zandalar, and perhaps building PVE content around the sword, and the Old God corruption underlying the present conflict.
Re: Pellex
If you think the War of Thorns was a “big, juicy ‘W,’” then we are on such different planets that I don’t see how further discussion can happen.
As I said to Droite, I think this sentiment comes from conflating relatedness and competence related issues. The Horde came off looking powerful, which matters when I filter questions like that through the lens of how the rivalry is doing. I agree with you though if you’re saying that this isn’t anything resembling what most Horde players wanted.
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Im considering the whole story arcs, if i ignore the entire bfa story and only see the cinematics please tell me how should i feel about my tree burning and saurfang cinematics then.
edit:on second thought, dont. i dont want to touch his story.
Guess that depends on what within the story you place the most weight on.
BFA killed a lot of roleplaying but not because of the loss of Teldrassil which was hardly ever utilised.
What killed roleplaying was Blizzard’s turning this game into one of grind grind grind, just to get certain things like flying. It majorly cut into the free time that casuals had for roleplaying and the non-casuals focused on getting themselves into end-game raiding.
Undoing the area losses would not impact the issue if the grinding aspects are maintained as they are. Shadowlands makes it all about grinding anima and mats especially if you’re a crafter.
So…there are NE fans who legit think WoT was a win for the Horde? Or am I missing some subtext here? Because that wasn’t a win, by any stretch of the imagination. Especially since the horde spent the rest of the expansion getting embarrassed
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Something about competence and relatedness.
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How do you argue it wasn’t a win? Did the Horde not wipe an entire nation off the board for a while there? Did they not take territory? Did they not defeat their enemy rather stunningly?
I get that you want to get into the rest of BFA, but that’s expanding the scope.
I get that you probably want to bring in the Horde’s motivation issues, but that doesn’t determine whether it was a win or not.
God, I really wish Alliance players would stop suggesting they want what the Horde just got in BfA. What an unfathomable lie that is. What they prove they actually want time and time again is to be allowed to do what the Horde was forced to do, but for Blizz to continue to maintain that frustrating Moral Absolutism the faction enjoys. If Blizz had the Alliance “genocide” a Horde race or blow up a Horde capital and did not bury the Alliance under a mountain of justifications to make them right in doing so … the Alliance players even on this sub have proven they’d go absolutely bonkers.
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Uh, Darnassus had a whole RP community. There were several nelf guilds who RPed there. At least on MG.
… Are you new? This has been WoW since Vanilla.
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I know these posts are coming in quickly - but, I agree with this sentiment as well.
Swapping lawns isn’t the answer.
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Did they beat them stunningly? Sure, but than the Kaldorei and rest of the alliance proceeded to steamroll the horde the rest of the expansion. Completely nullifying that initial win.
I might argue that the players of the horde did not feel it was a win because again the tree burning was a last second surprise. Most heroic or honorable horde members felt like this…
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No, Night Elves were still a presence even after the pre-patch event. They were at the SoL, in the BfA cinematic. So, no, they weren’t knocked off the board for any length of time.
Sure.
You mean when the entirety of the Horde warmachine bled for every inch of territory they claimed despite having a massive numbers advantage against a token force of city guards and civilians? While the Night Elf military was elsewhere?
Stunningly?
Hardly.
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Not counting the trolls on twitter, I don’t know anyone horde side who was legit happy with how the WoT turned out.
Eh, not really. The photos of Sylvanas standing in front of the Burning tree drew concern from Horde fans long before the pre-patch event.
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Feeling so trapped in the villain bat narrative that our only ways out were to leave or hide?
This was double for me since I had literally been waiting for Sylvanas to use the Horde and bail since Stormheim of Legion. I spent two years being told I was a terrible person IRL for playing my favorite PC race by overzealous Alliance fans, and waiting for “that sudden but inevitable betrayal” by our Warchief. LOL! God BfA was a god damned mess! 
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Glad we agree on the first point. On the second, the humans did that, but the best the Kaldorei had to show for it was Darkshore, which wasn’t ALL bad - it DID have good moments, but it was fatally flawed to not be enough between the Nathanos nonsense, the presentation of the “victory”, and the fact that it was Darkshore and was always going to represent a net loss in context to what it was being done in reply to.
RE: Turasko
I might argue that the players of the horde did not feel it was a win because again the tree burning was a last second surprise. Most heroic or honorable horde members felt like this…
No question that it didn’t feel heroic. No question that it sapped a lot of motivation from Horde players - but again, I’m mostly focused on it presenting the Horde as powerful and the Night Elves as anything but - which again in my opinion screws with the rivalry.
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As a person who feels his character is a aggressive horde character, I would say he liked the burning but not the betrayal. I know controversial, but I like to be different.
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Sylvanas copy pasted 3 times with a clothing swap and purple spray paint is supposed to instill me with pride?
