I think, like deathknights, Paladin’s slow (hand of hindrance) should not have a cooldown, and cost one holy power instead. Most other classes that have a slow have basically an infinite slow, and I think this would highly benefit paladins in pvp without being unreasonable. Most classes already have this in their toolkit. I think the 1 holy power cost vs a long cooldown is a reasonable change as we have pretty bad mobility. This by no means fixes ret’s viability in pvp, but it would help some.
You’ll stay in your wheel chair and you’ll like it!! 
3 Likes
Rets don’t need a spamable snare. They need self snare/root removals (Emancipate) so they can use Freedom on their partners. Long Arm of the Law would be ok too.
6 Likes
Pvp is already ruined in every site of the game… there won’t be any saving for pvp. Furthermore, i don’t think game will invest on pvp which is losing player obviously.
Mythic geared players can kill a new player in stun locks. I don’t think new players would get interest in playing pvp since it’s just a waste of time. With the power of essences and corruptions , most average geared players will die in stun locks by mythic geared players.
we need less slows. imo they should be a tool not a perma slowed
3 Likes
at the very least ret should have sanc baseline (the spec known for utility has less utility than half the dps specs in the game currently) and law and order baseline. having to use a pvp talent to make my slow go from complete dog to semi dog is very troll. law and order and sanc also increase the skillcap of ret which isnt too high these days
2 Likes
I agree about sanc being baseline, (firm believer Conflict should have given us sanc) but idk about Law and Order
2 Likes
Law and Order should’ve been baseline for lag issues with hitbox
But yeah Sanc should just be a baseline ability for Ret. It makes for skillful play in m+ without being a gamebreaking ability.
Law and Order is also only applied from Blade of Justice so its not that strong either as a slow.
i just dont see how l&o baseline would push ret over the top
of course im mainly talking from a 2s perspective where it feels really really awful to not have l&o because you have to take sanc against certain comps
Yeah I mean it feels nice and everything but as a pvp talent I don’t mind it.
Yes, give PVP DEVs.
Outside of that from a bias, yet personal POV I’d say melee need less uptime tools and ranged need less downtime tools.
It should be niche and class identity/utility who has and brings what.
That being said hybrid classes are difficult to balance even from a player POV. With damage and healing ontop of support tools any power shift too much in one direction can quickly make them oppressive and over the top. Throwing say a frost mage/DK permaslow into it would just be overkill
if sanc were baseline then id be more inclined to agree
just feels awful currently to basically only have 1 talent to choose between dmg/slow because two of your talents are p much mandatory (short wings/sanc)
they broke short wings into pieces in sl, so now you’re open to more talents
lawbringer + sanc + unbound freedom if double melee or law and order
ah man i totally forgot about the short wings change i really liked that talent, fit with ret’s playstyle really well 
They gave us 2 new burst talents that’s also on the 1min line so they wiped the short wings for that
fr and es are going to get severely nerfed tho theyre way overtuned
id much prefer short wings
ineff pally was busted for quite some time. hoj into hoj into hoj
ngl i kinda hope they r bad for awhile in shadowlands.
This is an appeal to homogenization. Classes are different, that’s what makes them interesting. I’m all in favor of re-imagining retribution paladins, but not if that means just copying abilities from other specs.
Let’s build on what makes retribution paladins unique. I’d like to see the horse reworked a bit. I think instead of 3 seconds, it should be 6 seconds, and during the duration it makes that paladin immune to snares and slows. We obviously would have to increase the CD to two minutes and remove cavalier, so that it’s not disgustingly OP.
I disagree with your premise that retribution paladins aren’t viable in arena. So my change is mainly focused on making them more interesting, and doubling down on their strengths and fantasy, rather then necessarily making them more powerful. I think my horse rework would really allow retribution paladins to play around their burst, instead of consistent pressure.
The issue with law and order baseline is it’s like actually a very well designed pvp talent, I think all pvp talents should be passives idk
idk keep in mind im coming from a mainly 2s perspective where not having l&o feels super bad, its not really that big a deal in 3s obviously