They fell into a plot hole and this is where it ended up.
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Legitimately frustrating that we never even get a hint of their motives for being there in the first place. They seem to be a convenient catalyst for Forsaken and Gilneans to kiss and be friends now.
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Well, there is a letter that says they wanted to shore up defense there so they have a place to cleanse the land from.
But like there are plenty of places where they need to cleanse. So again it seems like they are just a convenient plot device. Maybe a better reason to fight in the city could have been a recent undead threat due to the old plague Sylvanas used had finally been affecting the dead to rise.
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That’s what I mean, there’s no reason why they’re in Gilneas SPECIFICALLY
The Scarlet Crusade as an organisation has its origins in Lordaeron, first of all, and is frankly quite xenophobic. Gilneas is an odd location.
Secondly, there’s plenty of more relevant places they could shore up, even if “abandoned” is a prerequisite. The old Scarlet Enclave comes to mind, in the Eastern Plaguelands. Why Gilneas? The “shore up defense” angle could be used literally anywhere, in truth. It’s not, in and of itself, a reason for why they’re in a specific location.
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I mean, at the start of the expansion, both Baine and Turalyon make it abundantly clear there’s a truce, not peace, between the Alliance and Horde, and we’re introduced to this concept again when we first set foot onto the Dragon Isles, where the two Veterans ask our characters to go introduce ourselves to their faction opposite representative.
Everybody is sick of the fighting, and there’s barely anyone left who can really fight. The only economy worth a damn is the one being built between the factions via the merchants and trade experts we’re sending to the Dragon Isles, so unless you can exist on air and spite, keeping the peace is highly important to everybody right now.
Now, this comes fresh and hot from the Crack Dimension, but Shadowlands might be public knowledge. Would you leap into the jaws of death if you knew the Light, the Spirits and the Ancestors weren’t waiting for you, but a well-meaning Glowstick who’ll send you to where you want to go … if the Shadowlands can spare your anima.
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…Victory for Sylvanas
cough cough Denathrius
How is it Denathrius?
Like not the way back when and that dreadlord disguised as a Scarlet boss. I mean with Gilneas.
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I just don’t like the term “Pallid Lady” because it seems like they wanted “Pale Lady” but that sounded too plain so they went to thesaurus. com to find a fancier sounding word.
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“Pallid” is a word we use to describe someone’s complexion when they’re terribly ill.
I…guess that fits, thematically? But if I had to bet on two armies and one was working for the Banshee Queen and one was working for the Lady With The Bad Complexion, I’d probably go for the scary one.
And then the entire expansion essentially belies this concept.
They pretty much exclusively sing each other’s praises. There’s not even a whisper of distrust or suspicion.
Sure but it’s one thing to keep a tentative peace, it’s quite another to assist an opposing faction with their own localised geopolitical problems. The reclamation of the Undercity was better in this way. Genn wants us to spy on the Forsaken, to keep an eye on them, see what they’re up to. In Gilneas, the Forsaken on the other hand seem to offer their aid unreservedly, for no gain of their own, despite their own precarious position at this point. Genn is painted as somewhat unreasonable for not being cool like his daughter and immediately trusting the people who brutally drove the Gilneans from their Kingdom without provocation, at a time of immense turmoil.
I think this might be where we’re on different pages. I’m not asking for a faction war. I think we’ve all had quite enough of that. What’s giving me whiplash is how quickly we’ve went from foe to friendly. It’d make more sense to me to go from foe to wary cooperation. In WoD for instance the Alliance and Horde still worked together, pretty much constantly over the course of the expansion, but they still skirmished in Ashran, they retained their own bases, and there was some evidence of deeply held mistrust (e.g. Khadgar vouches for Horde players near his tower when Jaina tries to bar them from it, Dalaran still being a part of the Alliance at the time). Or hell, the cold war dynamic of the early game, where leaders are largely TRYING to keep the peace, but there’s significant tension between the factions.
IMO, Dragonflight is pushing a dynamic that is too friendly, to the point of disbelief after so many conflicts and atrocities. There’s probably not an Azerothian alive who hasn’t lost a loved one to the other faction at this point… and yet we’ve seen nothing but friendliness, or the unfriendly recognising how wrong they are. Maybe I’m wrong for enjoying a bit of political tension in a story, but frankly it’s frustrating to see this utter friendship, fine and good in some cases, but never counterbalanced with a whit of tension. Rock and Roll Lawsuit Blizzard went too far with blowing up entire cities and throwing out atrocities like cheap candy, but Tolerant Loving Woke Blizzard is just as offensive in its own way by readily dismissing years of conflict in lore so that we can all hold hands and be friends, and painting those who have legitimate grievances as tired old boomers who need to step aside for the next generation. Idk, not a fan.
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I feel like the difference we’re seeing here is politicians versus civilians. The politicians are all posturing and untrusting. The civilians just want the war to be over.
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I absolutely agree. I think there’s an entirely plausible and believable way to do tension between the two factions without the inevitable escalation to a state of all out war. Past expansions that weren’t BFA or MoP have done this (in my opinion) quite well. Genn and Sylvanas vying for strategic locations on the Broken Isles against the backdrop of the Legion’s invasion, the Silverwing Sentinels and Warsong Outriders clashing over territory in Ashenvale, while other organizations or characters are willing to set aside their differences for a common purpose (the Argent Dawn, the Kirin Tor, and the faction leaders who are committed to preventing the conflict from scaling too far out of control).
Dragonflight feels like it has gone way too far in the opposite direction with its borderline aggressive insistence that Horde and Alliance play nice and respect one another. Good stories need conflict and tension to make them interesting, and faction rivalry is something so ingrained in many WoW races at this point (for good reason when you consider the history that’s led us here) that it feels awkward and immersion-breaking to see such a vast majority of NPCs forced to wear the proverbial “Get Along shirt” and smile cheerily throughout the whole ordeal.
As for Calia and Gilneas, I pretty much saw something like this coming when it became abundantly clear that we were going to get Calia as a part of the Forsaken leadership after Sylvanas flew the coop. Does it bother me? Well, yes. But not as much as it used to, because at this point, I’ve just decided that the greater narrative is less important to me for the story it tells than for the canvas it provides. The Gilnean Reclamation storyline may have been a letdown, but you can bet I’m still going to use it to inform character decisions and attitudes in my RP in the coming months—at this point I already play several embittered formerly outspoken Sylvanas loyalists and current Desolate Council skeptics.
What better way to galvanize their skepticism and disdain for the present leadership than by placing Calia at the forefront of an effort to relinquish lands the Forsaken fought to conquer!
(^ When I look at it this way, it makes me less upset about Questionable Writing:tm:)
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The number of roleplayers who do this is toodamnhigh.jpg
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And also, yes, this. I think people sometimes underestimate or undervalue the power of simplicity. In my opinion, “Pale Lady” sounds much cooler than “Pallid Lady” because it evokes images of Death (as in, “Death” of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse).
Case in point, would Sylvanas’s title “Dark Lady” have been as memorable if it had been something more esoteric but less stark? “The Ghastly Lady”. “The Caliginous Lady”. “The Tenebrous Lady”. “The Umbral Lady”.
I’m making myself cringe.
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I agree re opportunities tbh, despite my OOC misgivings. We can always play with our own tension lol. For instance, I’ve been having fun with Sarestha’s usual clash between Light and Forsaken values. She was initially very fond of Calia, perhaps loyal to her above the other Council Members except perhaps Lillian Voss. However, following this Gilneas business she thinks Calia is DANGEROUSLY naïve about the Alliance and that could pose a significant risk to the Forsaken. Thus, if ever a coup arises against Calia… Well sometimes you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do to protect the Kingdom of Forsaken Lordaeron. Even a coup can be virtuous if it’s in the interests of protecting the people, right? 
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Dunno why but I loled IRL at this one in particular.
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This is an historic moment: when two characters like Maerlyn and Sarestha actually agree on something.
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Kirsy’s new title.
It seemed pretty obvious to me from various voice lines that they were there simply to cleanse the land of the cursed Worgen…they’ve never really needed much of an excuse to commit genocide. You have a conflict, a city falls, the city is rampant with creatures you hate and is prime real estate for the taking now that all the major resistance has been crushed? Appears to be a perfect alignment of events for opportunists such as the Scarlets.
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