Alterac Valley in Classic

[Seijuron-darkspear (Seijuron)]

Without even mentioning how imbalanced it was in favor of the alliance, I’m pretty sure it’s been stated over and over again that the data has been overwritten for their version so whatever they are asking for is going to just be guess work.

Two points on this however.

First, Blizzard has never said if the data had been lost or not. Prior to the watercooler, in one interview or publication, they did mention that they had retrieve several patches going even older than the 1.12 patch (They did not specify up to when).

Now regarding imbalance, remember Kalgan a.k.a Tom Chilton? From patch 1.12 to 2.3, AV has not been touched. Do you know why they implemented the timer, the reinforcement and added more honor to towers/captains/generals? Because Kalgan, just a few weeks before the deployment of the patch (November 13 2007) addressed the issue AV had. The Alliance was winning 70-80% of Alterac Valley. The zerg rush were too common and the map favored the Alliance too much. Funnily enough, this was completely reversed in patch 2.3, changing the strategy with horde having a bigger advantage thanks to the location of their cave. I mean, horde was still losing a lot but technically, they had a way bigger advantage in patch 2.3.

Which was then changed in patch 2.4.0 with their cave being pushed back. With the reinforcement, which was a stupid addition, at least the BG was back to win ratio something like 60-40 for Alliance.

So no, there is a problem with patch 1.12; it is favoring Alliance too much. Horde players will enter AV for the reputation and that’s it. For the BG week ends, they will AFK in the cave. This is how we did back then to let Alliance win. The faster they win, the better it is for the horde players as you get bonus honor. This was the issue between patch 1.12 and 2.3

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

Or. I can just keep talking abour it here on the official forums.

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

And they made it clear that like everything else in classic they’re going to be using 1.12.

Like that time they made it clear they had no interest in doing classic? How did that work out again?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

And they made it clear that like everything else in classic they’re going to be using 1.12.

Like that time they made it clear they had no interest in doing classic? How did that work out again?

They decided to remake 1.12.

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

They decided to remake 1.12.

Yea and their intentions were to never make anything. They consistently said no. No. No. Not at this time. No. No. No. No.
Players continued to ask. Here we are and it’s not because blizz said. Its because players would not let it go. Just like this.

Aren’t you cute with that hashtag. Now go post it in the twink thread. Lol

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

They decided to remake 1.12.

Yea and their intentions were to never make anything. They consistently said no. No. No. Not at this time. No. No. No. No.
Players continued to ask. Here we are and it’s not because blizz said. Its because players would not let it go. Just like this.

Aren’t you cute with that hashtag. Now go post it in the twink thread. Lol

If you’re interested in making changes I’m all for that discussion. Until then 1.12 as is, #nochange.

[Majat-draktharon]

Yep, and itll happen again possibly.

[Majat-draktharon]

1.5 is in essence a #nochange. 1.12 just got catch up mechanics that allows for faster grinds. All of it though is within the scope of a no change

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

[Anadann-icecrown]

A hero, that’s what you once were.

[Ehma-korgath]

No, they made that decision because they where full of themselves and disrespected a large part of there fan base for the sake of what they thought was best.

Lol yeah that’s why…

Come back when you’re ready to be an adult.

First, Blizzard has never said if the data had been lost or not. Prior to the watercooler, in one interview or publication, they did mention that they had retrieve several patches going even older than the 1.12 patch (They did not specify up to when).

That’s why I said ‘Not even mentioning’. Because even though it can’t be proven right now, it can be heavily implied as they have said in the past that most of everything they had had been overwritten. Then they said in the discussion regarding Items that they found some data even before 1.12. So it can be implied it’s gone but if you really want to suggest it could be out there then sure… if you want to.

Now regarding imbalance, remember Kalgan a.k.a Tom Chilton? From patch 1.12 to 2.3, AV has not been touched. Do you know why they implemented the timer, the reinforcement and added more honor to towers/captains/generals? Because Kalgan, just a few weeks before the deployment of the patch (November 13 2007) addressed the issue AV had. The Alliance was winning 70-80% of Alterac Valley. The zerg rush were too common and the map favored the Alliance too much. Funnily enough, this was completely reversed in patch 2.3, changing the strategy with horde having a bigger advantage thanks to the location of their cave. I mean, horde was still losing a lot but technically, they had a way bigger advantage in patch 2.3.

Lol yes in TBC it was imbalanced. But are we talking about TBC? Yes or no. I want you to actually answer this please.

It was fine in vanilla. When TBC rolled around they did not buff the mobs up to the level 70 standards that would have been similar to the vanilla version of the bg.

Plus the addition of reinforcements made the bg completely different than what it was later on. So why exactly are you comparing these again? Come on man you know better than that. Imagine calling Nax a joke because you raided in at level 70. That’s literally what you’re doing.

So no, there is a problem with patch 1.12; it is favoring Alliance too much. Horde players will enter AV for the reputation and that’s it. For the BG week ends, they will AFK in the cave. This is how we did back then to let Alliance win. The faster they win, the better it is for the horde players as you get bonus honor. This was the issue between patch 1.12 and 2.3

I love how your whole argument is how imbalanced this bg was in TBC LOL. In vanilla this is just fine. Please try again later

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

1.5 is in essence a #nochange. 1.12 just got catch up mechanics that allows for faster grinds. All of it though is within the scope of a no change

Was 1.5 AV in vanilla 1.12? No? Sounds like a change to me.

[Ehma-korgath]

1.5 is in essence a #nochange. 1.12 just got catch up mechanics that allows for faster grinds. All of it though is within the scope of a no change

Actually if you want to get technical 1.12 AV was the longest lasting version of AV during vanilla. So… 1.12 AV is technically the essence of #nochange

[Seijuron-darkspear (Seijuron)]

No, I am talking about Vanilla and how in TBC they had to adjust this. As I said, the battleground has not been touched between Vanilla 1.12 to TBC 2.3.
The team adjusted the issue in TBC because the alliance was winning 70-80% of the battlegrounds between 1.11 to 2.3.

[Ehma-korgath]

No, I am talking about Vanilla

No you weren’t. You said that just before they change it in 2.3 ‘alliance had a win rate of blah blah blah’, that would mean that the issue was DURING TBC. The alliance didn’t have this win rate in 1.12. Period. It was way more balanced during the vanilla era.

The team adjusted the issue in TBC because the alliance was winning 70-80% of the battlegrounds between 1.11 to 2.3.

Oh so now you’re saying the win rate was also during vanilla, you’re gunna have to link the source here now bud you are flip flopping. This even sounds like BS lol.

I’m not arguing there was an issue with the vanilla version of the game during TBC, that’s obvious. During vanilla 1.12 was way more balanced than the earlier versions.

Gunna need a source on what you’re saying though because right now it just sounds like nothing to take serious.

[Seijuron-darkspear (Seijuron)]

I think you are having some trouble reading my original post. I do clearly say “From patch 1.12 to patch 2.3, AV has not been changed”. So that includes both TBC and Vanilla.
And actually I should have said 1.11 because 1.12 did not touch AV per se-

The win rate prior to the changes in patch 2.3 reached 70-80% for the Alliance. Yes, this number is for TBC at the time but if the battleground has not been changed since 1.11 why would it be any different in Vanilla?
The zerg rush being now a known strategy, it is easy to understand by anyone with half a brain that 3/4 of the AV will be that way in Classic, and we all know that the alliance is heavily favored on the map. Blizzard had to eventually remove the hill next to the horde base so that you could not jump in the village directly anymore.

Regarding a source, the only thing I can find at the moment is from this article: The AV map imbalance in patch 2.3: a different perspective, from the website Engadget.
I mean, it seems fairly evident to me that if before the patch 2.3, the win rate of Alliance is up to 80% and the battleground has never been updated since 1.11, this win rate applies as well to Vanilla. I don’t see why it would be any different.

[Featherblade-wyrmrest-accord (Featherblade)]

Thank you so much for keeping us in the loop, Kaivax!

[Switzy-stormreaver (Switzy)]

It’s sad that not even the re-release of vanilla WoW can resurrect OG AV. I guess private servers are the only valid option left.

[Ehma-korgath]

I think you are having some trouble reading my original post. I do clearly say “From patch 1.12 to patch 2.3, AV has not been changed”. So that includes both TBC and Vanilla.
And actually I should have said 1.11 because 1.12 did not touch AV per se-

The win rate prior to the changes in patch 2.3 reached 70-80% for the Alliance. Yes, this number is for TBC at the time but if the battleground has not been changed since 1.11 why would it be any different in Vanilla?

Source source source source. Nothing you say matters until you link that source.

Here let me show you.

Blizzard told me that from patch 1.5 up until pre-1.11 win rates for alliance were 90%. And then post 1.12 until the end of vanilla it was perfect 50/50.

You gunna take my word for it?

The zerg rush being now a known strategy, it is easy to understand by anyone with half a brain that 3/4 of the AV will be that way in Classic, and we all know that the alliance is heavily favored on the map. Blizzard had to eventually remove the hill next to the horde base so that you could not jump in the village directly anymore.

It was a known strat… mostly during TBC and not vanilla. Nothing you say matters until you link that source of what you’re talking about. Everything you say is hanging in a limbo of disbelief until you prove yourself on those numbers.

Regarding a source, the only thing I can find at the moment is from this article: The AV map imbalance in patch 2.3: a different perspective , from the website Engadget.

This should be fun lets see where you got your info from.

Ahh beaUTIFUL my friends.

https://www.engadget.com/2008/02/08/the-av-map-imbalance-in-patch-2-3-a-different-perspective/

Let’s post what this guy had to say:

It was only in Patch 2.3, over two years after Alterac Valley was released, that drastic balance changes were made. Before the changes, Kalgan went on the record to state that Alliance won as much as 75% to 80% of AV games while win-loss ratios in other BGs were just about even, indicating that the problem was with the map.

So it seems here that he didn’t mention 1.11 AV at all and was talking about ALL the versions of AV pre-tbc. So if anything this article implies that TBC fixed AV LOL.

Oh and btw the article kinda goes with what I was saying lets take a look:

the same exact statement was true for the old Alterac Valley where the goal was to reach the General at the end. So true, in fact, that the Alliance won a up to a whopping 80% of the games.

Huh that’s odd.

So once again classic WoW forums, you proven yourself to not understand what is ACTUALLY said and instead go in a complete opposite direction and take on your own meaning to it.

This one is especially bad because they didn’t even MENTION 1.11, 1.12, or anything of what you said. Try again.

[Ehma-korgath]

Come back when you have a argument, rat.

I do but you aren’t old enough to understand it. They chose that version because

1: They believe it’s ‘more’ balanced than the earlier versions, and this is true whether you want to believe it or not.

2: Based off everything they said, chances are that they don’t have the original data for that bg anyway.

But yeah, just stick to your opinion where they are doing it solely because they are arrogant lol. Oh and btw, your suggestion for a fraken patch AV goes against what everybody has been asking for out of classic since it was announced, don’t change vanilla. If you think 1.5 is best, sure you go for it girl. If you think it’s 1.8, sure you go for it. But when you’re asking for a fraken version then you are basically asking for something like class balance to fit the game you want to play.