Its utter garbage. 4 Talent point wasted on Doom, I never ever want to press Doom. The rest of the bottoms 2 rows are just passive damaged amps. Not inspriring at all.
The rest is okay at best.
Good point. I was also a little curious how they’re justifying Vilefiend’s place with it becoming so integral. Love the changes, but they either have to come up with a good NP replacement as a competing build or look at making Fiend an early pick.
This whole comment is my biggest concern. I think a lot of people will be happy with the new Vilefiend build, but just imagining the new rotation, I can’t see casting HoG basically at all. The SS economy seems like it’ll be fine if you’re using Doom/Vilefiend; but only if you’re using the shards to cast Doom and Vilefiend. I think the Imp build is still really fun and should be an option, but to your point something has to change. I’d be fine with passives, I’d also be fine with a HoG rework, but something’s gotta change.
I definitely feel the bottom of the tree needs the most attention. Tyrant definitely should’ve moved, but we really don’t have any oomph as a payoff.
Don’t bother with these schmucks homie. The whole reason we got good patch notes today is because we made noise last week. Spriest is in the same boat. Idk why people waste their time even commenting stuff so braindead.
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I have to agree with you. This was a positive move.
Love seeing synergy between our demons and spells, that interact with one another.
It would be awesome if say when certain demons spawned in the field it cause other demons to become corrupted and change into some other more powerful forms which change what they would do.
The restructure tree is also a big move forward. Overall liking this now.
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Yeah this is one that should get resolved.
Seems bad to have an aoe talent gated by a single target spell.
To add to this. If the devs wants warlocks to remain as a turret caster, I mean to the point of wanting us to sit in one spot to cast spells over the rest of the casters then they will have to maintain our survivability.
It is strange to design a caster to be slow (in comparison to the rest of the dps specs) when it comes to movement in mythic+/raid mechanics and then nerf our survivability to due not dying.
If you design a caster to the point you want them to turret cast than you’re designing us to also be able to ignore not all but some 1 shot mechanics. You can’t want our specs to cast more with a lot less mobility but also subject us to having to always to move to mechanics.
This is due to how warlocks in the start of DF where extremely tanky but also had lots of mobility in this case demo but received nerfs to those survivability talents only to then see other specs with immunities and mobility survive just the same or more so than us.
There’s a lot of bloated movement improve for a lot of the dps specs coming to the next expansion but I don’t see the same when it comes to our survivability. The one only one I see is the new healthstone talent.
And from what I’ve seen when you start adding a bunch of mobility to specs is due to the way you devs are designing mechanics in this new expansion. I might wrong on this but the amount for swirlies/movement in pve mechanics has been increasing over quite some time.
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You mean last week before the whole tree changed, and half of our tree was just boring % stat increases?
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Pretty nuts.
Love the revamp to doom, tyrant, vilefiend etc.
Theres also place for a crit build.
Overall i couldnt pick so theres hard choices to be made. Pretty legit.
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If someone could post this on Alpha forums for me, i do not have access
imgur for talent tree mockup i cant post links -
Version A - wn5IIka
Version B - /a/bbQnEIR
So last night I thought of some changes to the new tree, and while it’s a great step forward i think it has some minor issues, here is my feedback.
- Swap Dreadlash and Carniverous Stalkers
This allows Demo to grab Imp Gang Boss for Single Target instead of Spiteful Reconstitution and keep pathing to soul strike, while unaffecting potential AOE builds as they will probably aways take Spiteful Reconstitution.
- Swap Demonic Calling and Wicked Maw
This puts Demonic calling in a place where it still is easy to access, but moves Wicked Maw closer to the relevant talents. (Foul Mouth, Shadowtouched)
- Dread Calling moves to the bottom row builds off Shadowtouched or Improved Demonic Tactics
This allows the Big Dog build path, but for people that want this talent but want a more passive gameplay from the right side can still have access.
- Rework Impending Doom, Doom deals 15% increased damage, and generates a soul shard when doom is removed.
This is because of the following rework to Sac souls below
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Add Doom to Sacrificed Souls, this means that at base (Felguard, dogs, 6 imps) Doom is 29% total (with Impending Doom taken), and during CDS or using the active demons (GFG, VF, Imp extensions from Tyrant) doom gets a bump
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Remove some pointless connections to The Houndmaster’s Gambit, Mark of Shatug/Fharg which would allow being built without having Vilefiend.
This just prevents people from taken talents that would have 0 value
7a. Bring back Stolen power place and place it after Umbral blaze then move PoTIM down.
Currently, as it stands we have 9 fully Passive talents in the third gate, adding 1 more would allow a Low-intensity Demo warlock, for people to use in open world/delves. These players are notoriously overlooked in favor of high end players giving feedback, but they should be considered too.
7b. Bring back the Vault 4p and place it where Umbral Blaze is, with a smaller amp.
Move umbral blaze below this new talent, then PoTIM goes below Umbral blaze, but has pathing from Vile fiend to grab for AoE (as shown in the mockup)
Rework Pact of the Imp Mother, Hand of Gul’dan has a 15% chance to cast a second time for free. Instant Cast Hand of Gul’dans have a 100% chance for this effect. (Maybe, this might be too strong and PoTIM is fine as is)
- Move Flametouched between new Wicked Maw and Shadow touched.
I understand these talents are supposed to be themed after the Felhounds and build off vile fiend, maybe rework the names? Still hits the dogs theme and can be skipped as it’s a rather boring pick but preserves good pathing for Vilefiend into Shadow-touched.
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Always a pleasure Urik. Love the take as usual, I think they’ve made huge leaps in synergy but I’d love to see them triple down on this to really beef up the idea that an army is coming for you
Really glad to see a theme emerging from everyone here:
-Talent pathing is off
-Desperate need for Nether Portal rework to provide a different option for Vilefiend build
-Lack of Cores no longer ruining spec, but will still present a problem for a lot of builds.
-Lack of strong single target to due weakened implosions/imps.
I’ll also add that I have to admit: their problem really is mobility. It’s not a hill I’ll die on so long as we have solid gameplay, but it is odd that Demo got singled out here lol. I hardly feel like casting 2 (at most) very weak Demon Bolts was the craziest movement ability for casters, but I can let the mobility argument settle for now if they give us some answer on HoG and Implosion
Can’t post myself but bubbling this up. Good feedback to get in front of devs.
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Yeah the mobility issue really worries me.
Because looking at almost more than half other dps spec/hero trees alot of them received some hefty buff to their mobility which tells me that the new expansion mythic+ / raids have some gnarly mechanics in store.
Im all out of hoping for things since this expansion release an insane amount of swirlies/mechanics.
The issue any time we warlocks get a survivability buff or a new talent it gets nerfed heavily due to being to strong for the content or w.e … weirdly enough DH doesn’t get that treatment. So rather we get some mobility in a sense.
Blizz devs tend to heavily nerf survivability through shields or damage reductions but rewards mobility even when it’s bloated.
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This is easily one of the best post I have seen on this forum. But I agree 100%. Good job Blizzard for accepting feedback from the players this time and solving the concerns in a way that has some imagination.
I agree that Hero talents seem a bit more one-sided (especially for demo) in favor of Diabolist… That being said I hope that the devs don’t undermine all the good work they have done on this demo tree overhaul by making Diabolist tree useless from nerfs.
I would like to see Soul Harvester tree get more synergy with the current demo tree.
Great job Blizzard on Demo Talent tree. This looks awesome. Please no nerfs keep the game fun.
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I think I’m a little more pampered in this facet since I mostly do Arena. But as you said…
The concept in the blue post that “warlocks trade mobility for utility” is pretty in concept, but doesn’t seem to be true in practice. I’ll say for sure that I do feel good in PvP with my defensives, but players also aren’t outputting the damage of raid/M+ bosses. I’d hope that’s something they address.
Out of curiosity, what spells feel weak in your experience?
Thanks for being a part of it homie! I made a pretty hotly discussed Lock thread last week, it only felt right to follow up. Love the community though and all the feedback, it’s awesome when players come together like this. It’s even more awesome when Blizzard hears us
I like the changes to Vilefiend and the movement of Demonic Tyrant. As for the rest, I’ll have to watch Kalamazi to get a better insight.
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Has anyone tried the new Doom talent. Does it cancel its cooldown. Or does it just reset when someone dispel it. Cause if it cancel its cooldown its quite good passive even without capstone it
Are you aware this week brought a new alpha build with a sweeping rework of Demo’s tree? Last week was something else entirely.
On topic, the rework is great. But I want the Inner Demons and Rune of Shadows nodes swapped. Call me crazy, but I really don’t want Inner Demons. I don’t like the aesthetic of it out of combat.
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When I was watching Kalamazi’s stream Doom’s cd reset when it popped with that new talent for it. These were target dummies, so I don’t know if it resets when the target dies early like Doom brand does.
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This with the other talent next to it got Shard regen can make a good thing. 5sec drop for every core conssumed. With its reset cooldown each time. Can make a good replacement for Corruption
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I definitely feel like HoG needs a bit of love. Granted, I don’t have access to the Alpha and I’m not entirely sure how the reduced SS generation is working out, but it kind of feels odd that Demo’s primary spender is basically something you cast every once in a while and only when your other spenders (Dreadstalkers and Vilefiend) are on CD. To me it feels like Demo is still going to be drowning in SS simply because the spec has nothing worthwhile to spend it on.
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I don’t have alpha either but its important to note all the ways we’ll have to generate shards in TWW:
- Rune of shadows reduces SB cast time by a good chunk
- We still have soul strike generating a shard every 10 secs
- We can make Doom generate a shard when it pops
- For Diabloists we’ll have Shadow Bolt barrage as a proc to generate 4 shards
- For Soul Harvester we’ll have Bloodborne Imps + succulent souls to cheat out HoG with just 2 shards
I guess we’ll have to wait for Kalamazi run demo in a dungeon to see how it plays out.
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HoG is your base Imp generator that you should be using whenever you have three shards or more, unless you can cast Dreadstalkers or Vilefiend.
You shouldn’t be casting it “once in a while”.
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Totally correct, and I can’t attest to any hands on experience, but with the way Doom, Tyrant, and Vilefiend are synergizing it looks like 3 SS without either Felstalkers or Vilefiend off CD might be a rarity. I like the direction, but it seems like SS are getting generated in such a way now to keep your big demons/Tyrant window up pretty consistently, and the deterministic ways to get shards are still not doing “imp army” players any favors.
The way I’m imagining it is that if you take the 5 shard generation from Tyrant, you’ll still be able to pop off 2 HoGs in that window, but there’s gonna be a lot more casting SB to get those big imp payoffs.
Again no alpha here either so pure speculation, but I think one of the bigger weak spots in TWW Demo is the “left side” of the retail tree.
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