While I agree with the sentiment that the purpose of the AH isn’t to acquire as much gold as possible, I would argue that it is analogous to “the purpose of playing WoW isn’t to acquire as many mounts as possible,” yet many players choose to dedicate a significant amount of their time towards that. The best part about WoW is how it can be played in completely different ways by different people. So I do not inherently have a problem with someone who wants to acquire as much gold as possible, nor that they use the AH to help accomplish that goal.
However, if the means with which they use the AH causes a great deal of harm to other players, then of course something needs to be changed. But the quest for gold, nor the use of the AH to assist in that, is by itself a bad thing.
While I don’t necessarily agree with the specific implementation that OP has proposed or other systems proposed elsewhere, what I do want is constructive dialog between all parties (including Blizzard!! which has been severely lacking, here) about whether something better can be created that a greater number of players can be comfortable with.
I’m certainly not accusing you of this, but in general I’ve seen a lot of animosity in these topics from both sides and finger pointing, with one side being happy that “goblins” are finally getting their comeuppance and being told they are scum and are ruining the game, and the other side shouting about “filthy casuals” or somesuch. As such, I am glad that some players are proposing and discussing real ideas. My hope is that we can just keep it civil and realize someone who considers themself a goldmaker proposing some change that in any way benefits them isn’t necessarily automatically a bad idea. There can be a common ground, we just need to find it and talk about it and propose ideas.
LOL your so sensitive you should learn how to take criticism you keep proving me right by continuing to respond trying to play victim we should go back and see how you talk to people too because by your standards this is also toxic
me telling you that your wrong is toxic so i guess all of that is too good job you done or do you need to get in the last word again to make yourself feel superior i hope you can learn to take the L if not jokes on you i wont even read what you want to be dramatic about next bye bye bye
I haven’t been reading a lot of these threads specifically because of the animosity. I don’t use the AH very often, so I don’t have a horse in this race, so to speak. But I do feel the prices will level out eventually, without any special intervention on Blizzard’s part. Maybe I’m wrong. I think we’ll find out though, since I sincerely doubt Blizzard will take any overt action to change things. (Just my guess based on their usual response to things.)
I very much like the suggestions I’ve seen regarding “work orders” and similar proposals. Right now the AH is limited to people saying, “I have X to sell for this much. Does anyone want to buy it?” I think giving players the option to say, “I would like to buy X for this much. Does anyone want to sell it to me?” would be a good thing.
I am not against players acquiring as much gold as they can. I don’t think they should whine that something is wrong when they suddenly no longer have a corner on a market.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the way the AH prices are working right now. I do think there’s some problems with how the interface and overall system is working, as I went to buy some herbs just to check things out, and I kept getting a message that the item was no longer available. I had to click repeatedly before I could buy some. Still, I did eventually get what I wanted, in several batches, some for less than others. The price was constantly fluctuating by a few silvers, but there were no drastic drops that I saw.
I agree that system would definitely make things better and I think it’s something that should definitely be discussed and explored more.
The problem we’re experiencing not being able to buy right away is specifically due to just how many more people are now trying to buy, and the solution isn’t easy. When you have a region as wide as the East Coast of the US to Oceania, there’s very real physical constraints around “I want to buy X but by the time the request gets to Blizzard’s servers X is gone.” My view is that the current system, as designed, literally cannot solve what is a physical real world problem due to the delay between A and B.
And it’s exactly why the stock market exchanges are designed with both “market orders” and “limit orders,” because otherwise they’d have exactly the same problem.
I didn’t think about it this way. Lag is a real thing.
I still believe that Blizzard will sit back with fingers crossed and hope it all works out somehow. If it doesn’t rectify itself, they will eventually (probably) work on a fix. I don’t have any hope of this being done quickly, but since the AH is a major part of WoW which impacts nearly all players, they might get on it faster than usual. We can only wait and see.
its pretty simple , blizz does not want ppl playing the game for free (ive not paid a real money sub in 2yrs ) - so crash the market and pretty soon you wont be able to afford repairs never mind buy tokens for gametime.
They… literally never said we had FIFO. They very clearly implied we use LIFO.
Now, I’m not necessarily in agreement that LIFO is best. That said, it’s likely better than FIFO, at least.
FIFO has the added problem of enticing “-1 copper” relistings from bots, which can rapidly crash markets when seeing the kind of bot activity we get.
RNG-based ordering of sellers is likely superior to either, as it doesn’t so quickly entice (granular) underselling but also doesn’t further advantage bots’ relistings.
The simplest solution, though, would seem to be just to not actually put something on the market (make “active”) until its free cancellation period has expired.
Additionally, there could be a sequenced delay per listing, greatly reducing the impact on any given bot on the whole economy. For instance, there could be a 90s delay after making all listings before even the first becomes active, but you could also put an additional 15s or so delay per individual listing, to be resolved in the order the listings were made. That, too, would greatly reduce the advantage currently given to bots and (semi-)automating addons.
Computer randomness is really pseudorandom (you ask the kernel for random bits, but those bits have to be generated by real sources of entropy or guesstimated via an algorithm designed to generate random numbers using monotonically increasing values). Even true random doesn’t mean uniform distribution. We can walk into a raid and I can get nothing and you can get 10 drops.
There’s a reason most computer science algorithms don’t use randomness to solve problems, probabilistic algorithms are difficult to reason about. LIFO and FIFO are deterministic behaviors.
“X isn’t as good as it could be” =/= “X is necessarily inferior to its alternatives.”
At present, LIFO does overly advantage bots, as there is virtually no opportunity cost for claiming a significant advantage (arriving at top of list), most noticeable in high-traffic, tight-cost-range commodities. FIFO, meanwhile, has potentially worse implications. Both ends of deterministic behaviors leave something more worth improving upon.
Either the present context (cancel period, AH action throttling, throttle weights, etc.) or the procedure for ordering posters, should likely be adjusted to try to minimize current and potential resultant issues. I suspect that context matters more, but if such is somehow unchangeable, then the procedure should at least be looked at again.
Absolutely. Take lightless silk bags for instance. Thread cost is now 11 gold per and you need 25 which is 275 gold. The silk as of right now at around 2 gold per and you need 15 that 30 gold. Thats 305 without the deposit. Ppl are selling bags for 300, what??
The 5g is representative of the amount someone is willing to pay to make the bag themself for a skill up. In order to take components and sell a product for more than the components you need to do something for me that I don’t want to do. Not only is clicking a button not that thing, but I actually get something out of making it myself.
What. If I spend my gold and time to produce something in game or in the real world I want to add not subtract to my gold if I sell it. We are talking about the AH after all. If I make something for 305 gold and sell it for 300 i’m losing 5 gold.
I am totally against the implementation of arbitrary price control.
I think it is necessary to add a purchase order system and also make a market value visible. And it is important that the market value is fully controlled by the players.
