Affliction Warlock Feedback

(Mallunoth) #1849

Yeah I remember you talking about Endless Affliction, tough I don’t remember what it was anymore, as this thread exists for quite some time now.

I don’t like it either as a PvP Talent, but as I said, unfortunately it’s what we can do with the current (bad) system we got. Personally, would make Affliction much more enjoyable and less strenuous to play.

(Xoja) #1850

So I haven’t really done any Affliction PVP since before the 50% blanket nerfs to traits but from what I hear Aff is pretty bad now damage-wise.

I’ll have to mess around sometime this week and see how it feels but it makes sense because Aff is pretty dependent on traits in PVP.

(Jessail) #1851

It might pick up as people start to get the new gear with the new traits. But from what I’ve seen of the trait combos… Afflock is basically going to struggle a bit this season/tier. Obviously the PvP and PvE requirements differ but the trait combos are downright painful.

(Xoja) #1852

Having trait combos might help a bit but honestly I think Aff is probably worse off just because of how ineffective most of the traits are in PVP.

Maybe stacking ID and having traits to supplement it will even out in the long run but Aff might need some serious mechanical changes before it operates effectively, if they even want it to.

Aff’s damage-related honor talents are terrible, and it’s part of the reason they get very little use compared to things like Gateway Mastery, Demon Armor, Nether Ward, etc. (the other part being that these talents are so good they can’t be passed up).

(Schirmy) #1853

After coming back to the game, not having played Legion, I’m feeling like I missed out; this current iteration of Affy is downright disappointing. The talent tree is so objectively bad, I honestly question if the developer’s had any insight inside their own decisions. I cannot imagine anyone who would give their assent of enjoyment playing Affy right now. The spec performs well in raids, no doubt about it, but it isn’t enjoyable.

Deathbolt is so broken with its synergy with Darkglare that it daunts over Nightfall and Drain Soul in every scenario possible. Drain Soul is a DPS loss over not choosing a talent in that row. For Drain Soul to even compete with Deathbolt, you’d have to Shard snipe 1 Shard every 5-6 seconds. Nightfall is undertuned, same with Drain Soul.

The 30 row doesn’t bother me a lot, except Writhe in Agony and Absolute Corruption are fairly lazy talents on paper. They aren’t exactly exciting. They perform well under their own niches so it’s okay.

Another scenario of a poorly tuned row. Phantom Singularity is the best and you wouldn’t even consider Sow the Seeds or Vile Taint ever. Vile Taint, post-buff, is still pretty bad. You’re banking on a tank keeping adds in the pool and the spellpower coefficient still doesn’t let it compete with PS. Vile Taint is actually a very cool idea, but terribly executed.

This row is pure meme territory, as with the level 15 tier. Shadow Embrace is such a pain to even attempt to play with; why does Haunt deal 1% more arbitrarily? In WotLK, SE was 15% I recall. The thought of keeping up SE on 2 targets with Siphon Life talented makes me cringe in disgust. There simply is not enough globals for that to ever happen. Grimoire of Sacrifice also is a DPS loss over just not picking a talent. It also doesn’t even have its AoE function.

Soul Conduit is literally useless. Creeping Death is such a cool idea, it just cannot compete with Misery.

Shadowbolt filler is so agonizing, no pun intended. UA stacking just feels weird; I really miss UA being a maintenance DoT over a resource dump. I think you guys have consistently missed the mark on Affliction since the MoP revamp. Malefic Grasp neutered DPS when you had to move; Soul Burn: Haunt sucked to play with; and now, in BFA, Affy is so mind-numbingly boring, you could legitimately write a cast sequence macro to DPS with. Fortunately, the spec doesn’t require a complete overhaul, but the talents need serious work. It’s really inexcusable for a talent to be a DPS loss by over 20% or losing DPS over not picking a talent in that row.

(Jessail) #1854

You basically just summarized most of the entire thread. They gave us DS back because we complained, and then basically trolled us by not fixing the tuning. Ditto nightfall. PvP is in even worse shape but Xoja is the better person to speak to that.

(Xoja) #1855

I haven’t done any Aff PVP since before the blanket 50% nerf to Azerite traits as I’ve been playing alts mostly. I’m pretty sure Inevitable Demise had reduced effectiveness but judging from what I’ve heard it’s worse off than it was and that’s really all Affliction had going for it.

I don’t really think Affliction is Marksman Hunter tier but it’s pretty close. Legion and BfA changes to the spec have put it in its worst spot ever in PVP, mechanically-speaking. Good Warlocks can still make it work and get rating but a lot of them will even say that the spec feels pretty bad to play and would probably recommend Destruction.

There’s just no reason to play Affliction unless you simply have fun playing it. It doesn’t bring anything worthwhile to the table in arenas, at least. It was okay in RBGs but I don’t know if it still is after the Azerite changes.

I think the biggest problem is the current state of UA, as I and many others have stated many times.

(Diora) #1856

Recently resubbed to play with my brother who started playing again . Very disappointed in how affliction still plays. And honestly Demon armor is great but still feel squishy against Dh and fury warriors. Tried destro but its just not for me. So I leveled my monk. What a completely different game.

(Jessail) #1857

I have been severely tempted to switch to my DH it’s so much more fun to the point that the melee annoyances aren’t as bad as they could be. It kinda reminds me of how sub rogue felt in legion, only less button timing sensitive.

(Xoja) #1858

Can’t fault anyone for wanting to play other classes. That’s what I’ve been doing, apart from the occasional emissary.

I gave it a shot - Alpha, Beta, 8.0, 8.0.1. There is no feedback left to give but the spec just isn’t fun or interesting and usually after a few weeks of not playing I would be excited to hop on my Warlock but I’m just not.

I’m happy for anyone that still enjoys it of course, but I’ve moved on. If I see changes are made in a patch I will gladly try it out at that point.

(Jessail) #1859

Apparently we were “too strong” in PvP, Demon Armor has been nerfed from 275% to 150%.

To those that read this thread in the future: We tried to help fix Afflock for BFA… and we failed miserably.

(Xoja) #1860

I didn’t really get the logic behind giving 275% armor to both Aff and Destro in PVP. Destro already has some passive mitigation from Mastery.

And of course… look what happens - both specs suffer because one was elevated to godhood. I doubt there was even enough sample size for Affliction.

But 275% is an absurd value anyway. That’s like Diablo/ARPG scaling (I guess it makes sense being that some of our devs came over from there).

This nerf is their way of bringing Destro locks down but for Affliction it’s like being kicked while already laying on the ground because the spec suffers from mechanical issues where Destro is far better off.

At this point I don’t know if it’s a critical thinking issue or if their intent is to ignore Affliction but with another patch without any changes and with issues that have been discussed for well over a year now I think it’s safe to say they are content with ignoring Affliction for now.

I know this is a very superficial thing to say but I just have no interest in playing a spec that has both performance and fun factor issues. I can look past the performance thing if it is fun but Affliction just doesn’t have good spread pressure and it’s too easy to shut down the damage mechanics we have. Playing creatively can be fun but I don’t think Affliction has the right tools in this expansion to make that a fulfilling experience.

(Sefirosuwar) #1862

I didn’t see where the demon armor fix was sent out for both destro and aff - the offical patch notes had it under destro with no mention of aff also receiving the nerf to it. - If you have seen it occur in game I would report that as a bug as it was not listed to be changed for aff aswell

(Sefirosuwar) #1863

I see that they edited the page from the original release and now say warlock removing the destro only section… awesome kick us while were down aff was already trash due to the 50% azerite trait nerfs. and now its even worse… great

(Xoja) #1864

Yep, I thought the same thing but then I looked again and saw they had taken the Destro thing out.

I guess I wasn’t crazy lol

(Jessail) #1865

I read the wowhead notes pulled from the build itself, it didn’t show the Destro only. Hence I posted; I would have been happy to have been wrong.

(Xoja) #1866

They must have edited it pretty quickly. Right after they were posted I saw:


Demon Armor blah blah blah

And when you posted I checked again just to make sure and the Destruction part was gone. So I guess they either made a mistake typing up the notes and/or they changed their minds last minute and took out that part.

(Jessail) #1867

I suspect that it was a disconnect between implementation and story as written. It may get changed back. For now Afflock has no change in PvP: We’re still DOA.

(Sefirosuwar) #1868

yeah this feels allot like the balance team and the implementation team missed the memo and just did it to both specs instead of just 1 - cause destro has that passive mastery that AFF doesn’t have. I’m still hoping that the 8.2 neck rebuild comes in and its like aoe for aff and passive healing and defensive… you know the things we had from the weapon that we never got back.

(Sefirosuwar) #1869

What if they added a baseline leech % to aff mastery and a random double proc leech%
Like destro has the damage reduction
would that help at all?
It obviously wont be as good as destro pure damage reduction or demo’s soul link.
but I think it would be something that I could get behind.