Affliction Warlock Feedback

(Jessail) #1829

Can you provide a source for the changes for 8.2? I can’t find anything announced yet.

(Xoja) #1830

I know they said they were looking at putting traits on the neck but I’d be surprised if it was the same traits we got in Legion, unless there is something they said about that.

I’d love Soul Flame and other things back but I’m thinking there will be different traits.

Either way it will be nice to have a little more depth once that rolls around.

(Sefirosuwar) #1831

Just to make this clear I was talking about design of how it will work.
NOT specifically the legion traits coming back.

Might not be exact copies of them but similar or fill gaps that they left.

I don’t think that soul flame will ever return, unless all the dungeons are redesigned to support that cause right now soul flame would cause all kinds of issues breaking cc’s on high level keys in m+ -
in legion we could just pull big and then AOE down.

The 8.2 changes are not 100% announced like with pics of he neck system or anything like that just ION during the last QA discussing what they are going to do with it. Which is put a AP farm based trait system like the weapon in legion.

I just hope to find traits that fill the gap of the things we miss. and I wouldn’t be shocked if we saw stuff return just not the big ones.

(Xoja) #1832

Yeah makes sense. I knew it wouldn’t be a 100% copy because that’s not how Blizz devs handle things.

And yeah Soul Flame, as fun as it was I expect not to come back. They can hopefully do something for our AoE though.

Was just thinking earlier about how the Nightfall honor talent in Legion was pretty fun (instant Seed of Corruption procs) and I’m formally suggesting it as an idea :wink: but with a new name of course since Nightfall is a talent, even if we forget it exists sometimes.

I don’t think it would be overpowered with the AoE capability we have now. And with the removal of Deathbloom we don’t really have any SoC traits.

(Sefirosuwar) #1833

Just for comparison - AFF’s 1 aoe dot aoe vs Balance druids dot Aoe.

Sunfire l Seed of Corruption
Instant l 2.5 cast time reduced by haste
instant 20% SP damage l 24% SP over 12seconds or after (SP * 50 / 100) worth of damage
87% SP Dot damage over 12 secs - l 63% of SP dot damage over 14 sec
8 yards all targets l 10 yards all targets

4% less damage per the spell cost but one is instant 1 gcd - vs 2.5secs and time to pop as well
24% SP extra damage on the dot and its dealt to the targets 14% faster

This is just shows you how terrible Seed of corruption really is a spell.
make it an instant cast and remove the damage requirement - it will still do less damage then its aoe counterparts and still has a resource requirement with soul shards, that stops us from spamming it. but makes it feel so much better to use.

(Jessail) #1834

At this point I don’t rely on seed at all, it’s a convenience nothing more. I’m pretty sure that 90% of time in raid I’m manually dotting mobs up because it’s faster to tab target or click target drop Corruption and Agony, then come back through and start dropping UAs when I refresh agony. If I’m lucky then PS will be off cooldown and will give me a head start… but 90% of the time it’s on cooldown because I used it on the first pack. On quick to die mobs I don’t even bother, I’ll try to get corruption on some… but most will die before I can do anything. Having a DH in the group makes this worse.

(Xoja) #1835

The weird thing is I think that tuning and talent changes for BfA were done around Azerite traits and with the removal of a trait that improved Seed of Corruption I really don’t see what the reasoning is behind keeping Sow the Seeds the same and/or not giving the spell a little buff. I’m sure it could be argued that not many used that trait especially because you can no longer swap gear during M+ (unless they reverted that, I’m not even sure), but that’s not really a good argument.

I mean, in a “big” patch all we really saw (apart from an armor increase and reduction to honor talent slots) was a nerf to UA. So if we don’t get some positive tuning changes or changes to spells/talents in 8.1.5 I’m just going to chalk it down to willful neglect.

Hell, it might even be incompetence at this point.

Maybe it’s this “shoring up on strengths, not weaknesses” adage they are shoving down the throats of players when in fact for some specs the weaknesses are accentuated more than the strengths.

(Jessail) #1836

I don’t think it’s neglect, I think it’s actively trying to make people play other classes and specs. They want to basically kill afflock to calm the “Afflock is always king” crowd that is constantly whining about affliction doing even decent damage.

(Xoja) #1837

Oh yeah, well that’s why I included the willful part :stuck_out_tongue: but yeah ever since the whole “we would rather you not play Demonology” thing in WoD I never trust them to want to always have every spec be enjoyable, fun and/or satisfying to play. I mean the guy who said it literally directs the game now.

Oh hey I can posts gifs now :wink:

(Sefirosuwar) #1838

that gif is the best thing ever

(Ojoverde) #1839

This is blizzard trying to force warlocks to play demonology even if you dont like to be a tower. I dont like demonology neither destro, i like to play affliction blizzard!. But you killed all the good things of the spec now, no ST, no AoE, no self heals. Give us back the affliction spec we like.

(Xoja) #1840

Can’t really know for sure thanks to the lack of communication but I assume the nerf to Affliction’s only real strength in 8.1 without any other changes or redistributing damage is a sign that they want people playing the other specs for now.

I’ve somewhat stepped away from my Warlock at least for now. It’s not really the performance of Affliction that bothers me, it’s the way it plays. There is almost never a reason to play without IDx3 especially since I haven’t been raiding (I haven’t even looked at which traits are good for different encounters). It just gives so much survivability and damage that it completely eclipses the other traits in those respects.

But… take that away and the spec is useless. The hole just gets deeper and deeper, and ID is the escape rope.

Honestly with most specs relying on an Azerite trait gimmick or pigeonhole “strengths” like Destro’s 3 minute burst I’m really finding the game less and less enjoyable by the minute. There’s no escaping being told how to play by the game anymore.

With talents we’ve always had the illusion of choice but at least there was flexibility with spellbooks and more decision making before.

(Jessail) #1841

I still raid with it, but I’ve been tempted to start rolling up a Demo armor set. Personally I don’t use IDx3, I use PI,SO, and CC to get a bit more consistent on DPS. That said it does hurt my DPS overall but gives me great AOE on ads that stay alive.

(Xoja) #1842

Yeah haven’t done a lot of PVE this expansion mostly out of disinterest but for PVP and whatever else I just have little reason to switch out of ID. Sometimes I use 1 Sudden Onset but that’s really the only exception.

The way I see it is Drain Life is such an important spell but it is so crappy without ID that I’d never want to be caught dead without it unless I was PVEing with a traditional holy trinity group where it doesn’t matter.

But the damage is also the only real kill condition Aff has in PVP and I think it’s crazy that such a thing isn’t built into the spec but comes from an Azerite trait.

It boggles me as to why they can’t expand on the talent system but they can make this passive trait system where some of the traits are better than most talents and totally make or break the specs.

(Jessail) #1843

Whereas for me as a PvE warlock I should be running 2xPI and 1xCC on boss, and my current build for spread only. TBF I should also be using DS:M on ST but I don’t care enough. My build right now works better for Mythic+ as is anyway.

(Sefirosuwar) #1844

@jessail - Look took at your profile, Wouldn’t it make more sense if you want to 2xPI - and 1x cc - to run Siphon life instead of AC - that way you have another 2 dots to refresh - with creeping and the haste buff from CC.
AC is 100% counter to PI and its design.
just confused

(Jessail) #1845

Most likely not because that’s wasted GCDs on AOE, the extra speed from CD means that I’d never get a full spread out before everything fell off preventing me from triggering PI. Whereas with my current build while I’m primarily refreshing agony, it pops shards just fine and I can keep dots up on the majority of targets up to about 10ish. That includes UAs btw. I don’t use seed on AOE except for initial setting of the Corruption on targets. Part of the reason this works is also because I’m running SO on AOE… which means I start at 4 stacks on Agony.

What I need to do is swap all that crit for mastery and haste… because that’s killing me right now.

(Sefirosuwar) #1846

Id like to test it but I feel like double SO traits would scale better for that playstyle and build.

(Mallunoth) #1847

Not subbed anymore, but back to give my 2 cents on a change that would please many Aff Locks and add some much needed gameplay options.

Unpruning is unrealistic to expect right now, but there is something that can be done using the current system, and that is the PvP talent Endless Affliction. Currently, it is a dead talent as we all know, so I propose the following change.

Endless Affliction, PvP Talent: Increases UA’s damage by “X%” and duration to 16 seconds. You may afflict a target with only 1 UA at a time. Dispelling UA deals 20% of the dispeller’s maximum health and silences them for 4 seconds.

Details: How many stacked UAs we need to deal a good spread pressure? I would answer 3. Live’s UA has a 8 second duration. We could increase the damage by 6 times (or 500%) and double the duration to 16 seconds, achieving 1 UA cast = having the DPS of Live’s 3 stacked UAs. And of course, the damage could be adjusted as seen fit.

Design Philosophy: This change would bring back UA’s original design intent: a strong Nuke Dot with strong dispel protection, while bringing back the playstyle that pleases many Warlock players, multi target spread pressure.


1- Addition and return of an optional playstyle, multi target pressure, fulfilling the Spec’s original design.
2- Punishes spam dispelling, as it should be.
3- Alleviates the Warlock on the burden of casting so many UA’s only to see it removed by one of the bazillion ways currently available.
4- Gives the Warlock’s Player room to cast other spells (like Haunt, wich we can’t even afford to cast sometimes) instead of spamming UA at every single opportunity.
5- Makes RoT and Decay interesting and viable again.
6- Maybe a DoT only based build with Sudden Onset/Dreadful Calling.

We could have a build focused on DoTs again, maybe even using Siphon Life instead of using something so antithetical to Affliction’s design as Inevitable Demise.


(Xoja) #1848

Not a bad idea. I proposed a few changes to Endless Affliction myself to make it a more desirable talent and to solve the problems with UA in PVP. I wish there was at least a little commentary from the devs about such an obvious flaw with that talent.

The only problem I see is that the realistic choices for honor talents for Affliction right now are all defensive. I’m not really convinced that making the offensive options more attractive would really help all that much for the overall health of the spec.

Honor talents are far too limited. I think the “too many chiefs, not enough Indians” cliche applies to the current implementation.

I’m all for improving Endless Affliction anyway, though. At least making it a useful talent wouldn’t be a bad thing.