Affliction Warlock Feedback

(Sefirosuwar) #1769

I mean that sums it up.
its where were at and where all the classes and specs are going.
So at this point i’ve grown to expect and it move forward from where it is.

(Xoja) #1770

Honestly I don’t expect them to do anything with UA until maybe next expansion but I do hope they look at the dead talents. There is pretty much no reason not to have Deathbolt ever and I don’t know who in their right mind would pick Soul Conduit over two haste options.

I believe 8.1.5 is the window for that, looking at what they did in Legion. I just hope they’ve been paying attention.

(Jessail) #1771

So looking at the numbers last night, I think what I was seeing was mostly the fact that most of the other DPS classes in my raid had been buffed, and we have been nerfed.

(Xoja) #1772

Yeah I mean it makes sense considering all they really did with Aff apart from Azerite trait changes was nerf UA. Basically plays the same, just lower output and burst.

Tbh I’m a little scared about how the spec would be performance-wise if they do rework some things in 8.1.5 but then again I’m just ready to move past this whole single target burst thing with Aff.

(Jessail) #1773

Given that the only thing we had going for us was DPS output, this basically is a deathknell IMO as there is no point in bringing Afflocks if the rotation is garbage and the DPS is worse.

(Xoja) #1774

Yeah I don’t raid at the moment to speak of or even really do mythic+ (did a lot in Legion though) so I can’t really speak for that.

I’d hope that if it really is underperforming with its only niche right now that they bring other strengths back to the spec.

(Jessail) #1775

We’ll need to see I don’t have enough of the new traits to see if we’re really under performing or if I’m just bad (likelihood is the latter). Simcraft will provide info too so it’s still a bit early.

(Taky) #1776

right, hahah

(Drakaeon) #1777

So Pandemic Invocation which is a great design from a gameplay perspective, providing a nice boost to multi-target damage on a smooth skill-curve (not too high of a skill cap, but still challenging to maximize the output of this trait in a raid or m+ situation) ends up being flat out undertuned. This trait should ALWAYS sim higher than Wracking Brilliance in a 3 target scenario because it is active and not passive, thus requiring skill to maximize and should be tuned as such or even moreso to account for the fact that a human cannot compare to the sim for such a skilled ability.

Also Wracking Brilliance is our “jack of all trades” trait which is good in all scenarios. So again… a niche skill should out-sim wrack in that particular niche.

(Xoja) #1778

Pandemic Invocation is a great mechanic, something I think should make its way into the spec after Azerite traits are long gone. I think it would be a suitable replacement for Soul Conduit since no one takes that talent anyway, and tuned properly for that.

Yeah I think it got nerfed right before the patch dropped and that might explain why it doesn’t feel great right now.

(Delofasht) #1779

It was really disappointing to see it underperform so hard when in theory it is such a great design. It rewards good play, but with a large enough window to be usable without asking the impossible out of most players. They should not have nerfed it the day before release, it was not strong enough as is.

Unless, of course, they plan to fix the trait stacking so the % bonuses and other trait based effects stack as well. That would actually basically balance all the traits, 3X Dreadful Calling making 2 minute Darkglare would be strong but not broken. So many of the traits fail to work like they should simply because those secondary effects do not stack properly.

(Xoja) #1780

So is the goal with Aff only having one playstyle that works in PVP?

There really are no good multi-dotting builds, in fact the current DB/Misery build is really the best and only way to get damage out all around. The only question in an arena is really whether we need Demon Armor in the match or not.

At least in Legion we had distinct choices for multi-dot/spread pressure or more heavily single target talent builds and both options worked. Perhaps the choices are still there, but they just aren’t worthwhile compared to the one build that transcends all others.

There is absolutely no choice with Azerite traits. Can maybe get by with 2 ID instead of 3 depending on the situation but really the Drain Life with full stacks is our best source of damage by far and it really isn’t even that reliable.

I’m not even sure honor talents are even the answer at this point either. In what world wouldn’t we want Gateway Mastery? It’s the only thing makes that spell good. In any situation where there is the threat of physical damage we don’t want to be without Demon Armor. The slots are too limited to give us real options with our damage. Every single slot has to be defense or utility.

Honestly Aff is a bit more fun since the patch but what about the real issues with the spec?

For as little as our DoTs contribute to kill windows now it is far too easy for them to be dispelled or removed, especially with the Resto Shaman changes and Chain Heal/Rain. Most other classes don’t have to blink if their DoTs get removed but we’re not really that kind of package.

Does Affliction really fit in a game where all these gimmicky burst designs exist? The whole Drain Life thing has me scratching my head. I’ve had my DoTs get dispelled right as I pressed Darkglare (something I knew would be happening this expansion) but Drain Life came to the rescue and deleted my target anyway.

I kinda get that the specs evolve around the rest of the game too but when you have to throw a massive armor and HP increase on a class and the DoT spec relies on single target burst more than anything it just feels a little odd to me.

(Sefirosuwar) #1781

That’s the thing,
Dot specs are not a thing that can exist in this version of wow anymore.
the game has two much variation in specs and gameplay to have a dot class work. It’s to fast paced of a game compared to the long matchs of yesteryear.

So I personally just realize that my dots are nothing but a accompaniment to my burst. Wither that is DB or Drain Life : and once you except it (which is hard) the game just starts to be clearer.
It’s a spam and run fest and then create cc window turret burst and win. AFF pvp in a nutshell.

and I’m starting to be ok with it - cause I see that there is no way to really balance a rot spec correctly. Dots are either worthless or overpowered so much micro adjustments have to be done to get that middle road right.
but Burst is simple to deal with you tune how often they can do it and you tune what its overall damage will be and boom done. its static easy to telegraph and easy to counter play and tune. and works even if not what the spec used to be.
the game has changed and the spec needs to change with it.

(Sefirosuwar) #1782

Also seeing the new pandemic azerite trait just come in basically dead cause of tuning is just sad. The nerf that they did right before it went live was overboard and not needed in anyway what so ever.
its sad that the best trait we have is WB - the passive int gain (MOST BORING EVER)
We get a new active trait that enforces good game play and dot management and its completely worthless.

(Jessail) #1783

What makes dot specs work is long ramp, which is antithetical to burst. This is why to me UA stacking and DB don’t make any sense for affliction. A better mechanic would be ‘soul sacrifice’ that strips all dots and deals 150% of remaining damage and hurts the player for 30% of their health. It works because it strips the ramp so we can’t just keep rolling, we have to start all over in a fight. But helps in short fights because we can nuke a target. It should be coupled with soul swap so we can keep the train rolling in longer duration add fights.

(Sefirosuwar) #1784

Ohh for sure in pve dot ramp classes can work - even if not as good as there burst counterparts do.
I was talking about PVP specifically with that post.

(Jessail) #1785

Hence why I responded with something that would work in PvP :wink: that said your healers would hate you… or you’d have to get really good at DLing people right after.

(Sefirosuwar) #1786

Nahh that idea would be so bad (imo) in the current pvp game - cause anything that self damages is 100% not taken.
You don’t want to risk doing any damage to yourself considering how many burst specs are out there. I mean 30% is huge to take back as damage.

(Jessail) #1787

I was just making up numbers, the idea was to sacrifice all dots. Honestly for 30% hp I’d expect more damage on the other side.

(Sefirosuwar) #1788

But they have that. its call soul shatter - pvp talent [Consumes all of your damage over time effects on the 5 nearest enemies within 40 yards, dealing up to 10% of their maximum health in Shadow damage.
For each enemy hit by Soulshatter, you gain 1 Soul Shard and 10% Haste for 8 sec. — its terrible -