Affliction Warlock Feedback

(Sefirosuwar) #1725

I mean it feels like they saw the #'s on the ptr for the raid and just nerfed based off that. and forget about pvp.
the dispel damage was nerfed as a side affect cause more then likely they use a script and edits both at the same time.

I wouldn’t be surprised that the Nerf is also to cause us to devalue death bolt and in term force more spread pressure in pvp. 2+ ua’s on everything rather then 5 on a single target

(Xoja) #1726

Oh I thought of that but still wanted to point out the ridiculousness of it and how bad UA dispel protection is.

I’m sure they have things tied together like you mentioned but I think it’s necessary to at least point out the wrongness.

Btw I went back and looked at 7.1.5 notes and compared them to 7.1 - it is possible that 8.1.5 is where we might see actual changes because 7.1.5 was where the Malefic Grasp rework happened and they talked about keeping a similar patch model to Legion.

I’m not saying to get your hopes up or assume we will see anything but I think it makes sense that it would be in 8.1.5 if it happens, due to them wanting to stay true to that model and also because that is when the new raid and PVP season will begin. They probably don’t want to mess with the current meta overseeing the game.

(Drakaeon) #1727

Yeah I called this out in another thread. If you guys remember the start of Legion and the pain we went through in Emerald Nightmare. The funny thing is Aff was built as a strong spread pressure spec at that time but EN was all ST, we complained like crazy and eventually got the MG rework to give us a ST build.

This time around all we have is a ST build, which at least puts Aff in a good spot for Uldir raiding, but now we have no spread pressure which really sucks for PvP.

Last time around was eerily similar, we had no response at all from months and months of feedback being posted, then we got the rework in 7.1.5. I do hold out hope that this time around will follow the same pattern.

Although you think they would have learned from the last time around and actually taken the feedback into account BEFORE launch. I guess they don’t do postmortems…

I am going to start a separate thread about the UA dispel issue in hopes that it is heard going into 8.1.5. I encourage everyone who cares to boost that for maximum visibility.

(Eldrìtch) #1728

I really hope you’re right. It sucks feeling like affliction is just going to be a 3 min burst cooldown for the next two years.

I haven’t seen all the posts on here so forgive me if Im repeating someone elses ideas (ill edit the post to credit you) but I had a thought regarding a UA redesign:

Have UA consume all soul shards for increased damage + reduced cast time. Attach a small debuff(target takes 2-5% more dmg) with a long duration(like 30 seconds)

With this you get a UA that is more mobile (say each soul shard reduces cast time by 20%, 100% cast time reduction with 5 shards means you can use it on the go). Attaching a long duration debuff to it encourages using it on multiple targets. Having it consume all soul shards makes it feel more powerful.

I played SWTOR long before I ever played wow, and this is kind of similar to how madness sorcerer (basically the affliction lock of swtor) operates in pvp. Their short duration dot nuke gets an instant cast proc that you build up to. I mean SWTOR is a meme for the most part but I actually find this playstyle to be very rewarding.

(Xoja) #1729

I wouldn’t count on it but I would say there is a possibility that they are postponing bigger changes until the .5 patch just going by history and patterns.

I agree that 3 minute burst isn’t really ideal for a spec like Affliction and it probably wasn’t the true intent of the changes, it just turned out like that. I really do hope they have something in the works. I don’t think Affliction should be void of single target opportunities, but the current burst design just doesn’t feel like it fits.

As for your UA idea, there have been some ideas about UA consuming multiple shards but not really quite the same as yours.

I don’t really want to dig for it but I proposed bringing back Soulburn as a cooldown and one of the empowerments would cause UA to use up to 3 (or 4) shards with one cast. 5 wouldn’t work because Soulburn would cost a shard, and 5 would be a little strong anyway. 3 or 4 on a 30 or 45 second cooldown would probably be more feasible.

It may not be the best idea but to me it would solve some issues:

  1. It would ease a lot of mental anguish in PVP by giving us a way to apply more immediate pressure and counter dispelling by forcing healers to be more decisive with their dispels.

  2. Middleground for the UA stacking debate. I would rather it be gone but alleviating some of the issues with it as a mechanic might be okay too.

  3. Soulburn would of course have other uses. I like having agency, and that is one of the things I liked about Soulburn and things like Soul Swap that allowed us to make choices.

Maybe some other things I’m not thinking of right now.


Posting this on an alt since my thread seems to have died and I can’t bump on my main. Sorry if that breaks any forum rules.

Would like to point out things I have observed about Shadow Bolt, as well.

Apart from the point about Nightfall being a dead talent and also something that could just be baked into the spec, I would like to point how out weak Shadow Bolt actually feels as an ability.

I realize that Inevitable Demise is being changed/nerfed tomorrow, but this trait can effectively render Shadow Bolt useless without even being close to fully stacked.

I did a test. I let ID stack up to 8 times (which shouldn’t even result in meaningful damage), and my Drain Life did 13.4k damage. I then casted 4 Shadow Bolts, for a total of 12.2k damage.

With one trait on an ilvl 370 azerite piece, Drain Life did 338 dps with 8 stacks and 4 Shadow Bolts did 307 dps.

In other words, twice the effort for less damage to bother using Shadow Bolt. And just because I have one ID trait and decided to Drain Life at 8 stacks instead of letting it build up. Also, tomorrow, 8 stacks will actually be more damage than it is today due to the changes ID is getting.

There are also no traits that do anything for Shadow Bolt, and the only talent we have that makes it feel slightly satisfying to use is Nightfall, but no one uses it because Shadow Bolt on its own is a very poor ability and numerically, Nightfall doesn’t come close to competing with Deathbolt.

(Jessail) #1731

I suspect even with the change to agony being the base ticker for ID it’s going to get removed eventually, a three stack of it is rather overpowered. Add in the refresh trait that’s dropping soon and I suspect SB may fall out of rotations except for low mana situtations (who thought warlocks would have mana issues… if life tap was removed :roll_eyes:)

(Xoja) #1732

Yeah, I mean…

I just tried a 3 stack (3 stacks of the buff, not the trait) vs. 2 Shadow Bolts, it still did more damage. One Drain Life is slightly longer than 2 Shadow Bolt casts but with the time it takes to manage DoTs and the per stack buff ID is getting tomorrow it probably will be better to use Drain Life over Shadow Bolt with even 1 ID trait.

At that point I guess it just comes down to the DPS increase being worth ID taking up a slot for PVE. I’m sure there will be Warlocks doing more in-depth number crunching than I have.

We already know there’s no point in not using ID in PVP due to Affliction’s current design, so I doubt that will be changing tomorrow.

(Sefirosuwar) #1733

The only thing that I would be worried about is that.
If the play style PVE ends up being that Drain life is worth more then SB with the 8.1 ID changes.

That there will be for sure be another nerf to the trait and that would negatively effect PVP on a much larger scale.
Also actively using drain life that much will be a serious mana drain -
The new Azeriate Pandemic trait - has already seen a serious Nerf on the last batch of hotfixes : so I can see that trait possibly coming in close to dead already.

(Xoja) #1734

I see that happening over Shadow Bolt being made better, unfortunately. But it would totally be ironic if Drain Life surpassed SB and Drain Soul as a filler.

Something that should not even be a concern for Warlocks, and yet now we are the only class that can go OOM just by using our main CC ability.

An interesting thought, though, and I know it probably wouldn’t ever be a thing but if Drain Soul was improved and Drain Life was at least sustainable until 20% in boss encounters we would have a new thing: Drain Weaving :joy:

(Jessail) #1735

Happened during cata actually, you used DS for part of the fight and DL for execute IIRC.

(Xoja) #1736

Hmm, I think DS had the execute thing on it though?

I actually looked it up on a Cata fansite:

Drain Soul

14% of base mana 40 yd range


Drains the soul of the target, causing 5 Shadow damage over 15sec.

If the target is at or below 25% health, Drain Soul causes double the normal damage.

If the target dies while being drained, and yields experience or honor, the caster gains 3 Soul Shards?s58070[ and 10% of his:her; total mana][]. Soul Shards are required for Soulburn.

I can’t really remember the specifics of Drain Life though.

Affliction was one of the few things I liked about Cataclysm. I truly miss that iteration of the spec. It was so fun copying dots and seeing things melt.


BTW, it looks like they decided to go with a 9% Unstable Affliction nerf over the previous 6% spell power nerf that was datamined.

Unstable Affliction damage reduced by 9%.

(Jessail) #1738

Not surprised, I look forward to being even further behind melee…

(Tugginmypuda) #1739

Is this a good change in the sense that they moved it to Agony? - Inevitable Demise is now triggered by Agony (was Corruption), and stacks up to 50 times (was 100). I am ok with the reduced stacking but not sure I understand how they can nerf this and also nerf UA. Is 20% more health and some armor really going to balance us to other classes?

(Jessail) #1740

Technically yes… having it on Corruption with the AC talent (basically required) meant that in any AOE or add situation you’d very quickly have a 100 stack of the buff. As for the rest of the nerfs… I don’t know; they seem to hate warlocks in general.

No it won’t, right now Havok DH is stupid insane damage and has baseline interrupts and purge. You can easily replace a mage with one.

Melee supremacy must be preserved apparently. It is dumb… full stop, but not unexpected.

(Xoja) #1741

It has pros and cons. ID stacking from Corruption was easily cheesed. For example you could turn Warmode on and throw Corruption on target dummies and as long as you didn’t change zones you would have a free 100 stack Drain Life about every 10-12 seconds and with AC the Corruptions stayed up indefinitely. Corruption is also spreadable with Seed so I’m sure that’s part of it too.

But in some ways I think it’s a good change. It won’t feel quite as gimmicky being 50 stacks, and we also don’t have to wait so long to get full use out of it. The only thing I’m concerned about is that on the PTR there was also a damage increase per stack to accommodate for the reduction but that was not showing in the official patch notes.

Interestingly enough, and I’m not sure which is correct… the datamined notes said 125% armor, but the official notes said 275% armor. 275% is a pretty decent armor increase but something tells me that’s not accurate. I don’t see why it couldn’t be though, other classes have pretty sizable armor increases (like Druids).

Generally speaking, I don’t see this as anything but a band-aid and it obviously doesn’t fix the mechanical issues with Affliction in PVP. ID is still going to be a must, choosing between Port and Coil is still an issue and they did nothing to fix our multi-DoT pressure issue. In fact, it’s just going to be worse with the UA nerf and that new Resto shaman talent that makes Chain Heal crits dispel everything.

It’s all just a sign that they don’t want to really fix things, they just want to redneck their way through with this patch.

(Eldrìtch) #1742

ID on live seems to be showing a damage increase so this must have been an error in the patch notes.

(Xoja) #1743

Yeah, can confirm it did get increased. My shoulder ID piece was 90 per stack before the patch and now it is 113.

(Eldrìtch) #1744

The 275% armor buff in combination with the 20% increase in stamina is definitely really nice, but it still doesn’t directly solve the spread pressure issue or dead talents issue.

Hopefully the 8.1.5 ptr comes up soon. I really want to see deathbolt & darkglare removed and replaced with something else.

I never played WoW back when this was a thing (I started in Legion) but after looking it up I think I agree with this. Looking at MoP affliction I really like the concept of UA not being a shard spender. Soul burn + soul swap looks really neat for multidotting. MoP malefic grasp + drain soul also looks awesome.

I would definitely like to see the return of these, though sadly that is very unlikely.