Affliction Warlock Feedback


(Diora) #1581
Im currently unsubbed .I let my sub run out last month. They have pretty much destroyed all the classes i used to find fun so they wont get my money till they are fixed. I dont want to play a bunch of alts i want my main to be viable lol.I used to love playing my hunter , they arent fun anymore.neither is my dk and they are in the same boat as warlocks.

(Yatogami) #1582
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(Nythkush) #1583
11/08/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Yatogami
When I opened up wowhead and saw warlock I was hype af then I saw demo and went back to small PP.

In other news what are you guys playing instead of your warlocks?


I started a mage last week. Big burst and strong CC. Got so much control over a warlock and i have defensives haha

(Cryptcrowley) #1584
11/08/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Yatogami
When I opened up wowhead and saw warlock I was hype af then I saw demo and went back to small PP.

In other news what are you guys playing instead of your warlocks?


I'm actually having more fun leveling my lock on the Classic demo, than I had with end content with lock on retail, as well as with any other class. The satisfaction of choosing which spell school to cast, and not being locked on one spec is astounding! Oh boi, how I've missed that!

(Yatogami) #1585
11/09/2018 01:42 AMPosted by Cryptcrowley
11/08/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Yatogami
When I opened up wowhead and saw warlock I was hype af then I saw demo and went back to small PP.

In other news what are you guys playing instead of your warlocks?


I'm actually having more fun leveling my lock on the Classic demo, than I had with end content with lock on retail, as well as with any other class. The satisfaction of choosing which spell school to cast, and not being locked on one spec is astounding! Oh boi, how I've missed that!


I miss felhunter paranoia and curse of exhaustion. When I get tired of a round of getting pounded on live I’ll go re live my days of being pounded on classic but at least I’ll have some fun tools to use.

(Xoja) #1586
11/09/2018 01:42 AMPosted by Cryptcrowley
11/08/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Yatogami
When I opened up wowhead and saw warlock I was hype af then I saw demo and went back to small PP.

In other news what are you guys playing instead of your warlocks?


I'm actually having more fun leveling my lock on the Classic demo, than I had with end content with lock on retail, as well as with any other class. The satisfaction of choosing which spell school to cast, and not being locked on one spec is astounding! Oh boi, how I've missed that!


Same. Been having a blast on the demo, playing all classes.

Even level locked at 19 it feels great playing with the original spells and talents. Can’t wait for Classic next summer.

(Diora) #1587
After the demo change post a blue responded in that thread. Affliction gets no acknowledgement at all. At this point i would take a sorry demon armor is all you get for now. Idk maybe im just being salty .

(Nyhlia) #1588
11/09/2018 10:15 AMPosted by Diora
After the demo change post a blue responded in that thread. Affliction gets no acknowledgement at all. At this point i would take a sorry demon armor is all you get for now. Idk maybe im just being salty .


You are, the response was to answer a question specific to the changes they announced. They didn't simply start answering demo complaints. They didn't address issues with the talents they were changing. I hear you, really I do and I agree with you that the changes they are making don't make any sense in context to how the game plays and the lack of substantive dialogue back and forth is frustrating. They are literally changing 3 dead talents since the expansion launched and the changes as they currently are don't actually even make them competitive. They just make them not blatantly obvious write-off talents. Hell one of them, Demonic Consumption, didn't even increase damage over not taking a talent on that row at all, that's how bad it was.

(Xoja) #1589
11/09/2018 10:15 AMPosted by Diora
After the demo change post a blue responded in that thread. Affliction gets no acknowledgement at all. At this point i would take a sorry demon armor is all you get for now. Idk maybe im just being salty .


Affliction and Demo have two different devs working on them, or at least posting about them.

Demo getting changes is good, the spec got nerfed pretty hard near the end of Beta.

It’s not really an excuse for the lack of info about Affliction in 8.1 and I hope there are some positive gameplay changes coming but I don’t think that dev is going to post. It would probably be Seph.

(Diora) #1590
Im just venting. But if i recall i dont even think a blue announced demon armor. It was just seen on Ptr . Idk i just want one of the specs to be fun to play. lol

(Xoja) #1591
11/09/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Diora
Im just venting. But if i recall i dont even think a blue announced demon armor. It was just seen on Ptr . Idk i just want one of the specs to be fun to play. lol


It would be nice if they at least discussed some of the changes they are making with Aff.

One thing I will say though, feedback was left about Demon Armor taking up an honor talent slot and being mandatory and they shifted some of the stamina to be a Warlock passive and it will still be mandatory but we’ll end up better off because of the combined numbers.

Just wish there was any communication about the future of Affliction. Mechanically it definitely needs work to be more useful in PVP. Slapping in a little passive defense doesn’t really fix the issues with our spread damage/setup.

If they take the time to address that on top of the survivability and issues with our talent tree having dead talents I think Affliction could be fun.

(Delofasht) #1592
Given the rate of changes we see for Warlocks in general, I would not be surprised to find out that our development is handled by merely one person and communicated to us by several who get permission from that person to see what they are allowed to say about it.

Now, that being said, the amount of spells, gear, talents, PvP talents, and other stuff across all 3 specializations is a lot to deal with. The truth is, most of the Warlock problems are class wide, so solutions to them could be universal as well, and then allow some specs to have talents or pvp talents to improve those baseline solutions. I proposed solutions recently that can touch on all specs, but neglected to give any advice on actually adjusting them for individual specializations.

To expand on that for Affliction, gaining some utility through a recent suggestion I gave could further be augmented by adding or changing some talents to affect radius, duration, uptime, or other elements of these suggestions. Any number of curse effects of PvP Talents could be adjusted to have passive secondary effects that would make them worth taking. Curse effects could be applied by Shadowbolt as a possibility, with an internal CD to keep them from happening too often. I mean there are so many options and ways to tune talents, but ultimately the team seemed focused on resolving class issues with gear.

That is something I have not taken the time to touch on as of yet. If the intent is to keep all the solutions spread out in as many places as possible (baseline, talents, pvp talents, gear, traits, etc), with major focus on gear, then the concept could apply equally well to traits affecting several talents at once. I personally feel this is the most sloppy approach, but working within the limitations of the design they have established. . . Provide traits that augment radius, shape, or other targeting methods of spells and abilities. Turning DoTs into frontal cone spells with a trait could be a very interesting solution to testing these kinds of effects.

Example:

Agonizing Glare: Your Agony is now applied to all targets in a cone in front of you, but now has a 12 second CD.

Enough that it can be quickly applied, couples well with Sudden Onset, provides AoE solutions for Affliction (which have been a concern to some). Works with new traits coming in the PTR as well (refreshing in the pandemic window), and overall shows how these traits and gear options can be used to solve issues that we have with the specialization in a nonstandard way.

Ultimately these are just talent suggestions that are instead put on gear and open to RNG drop rates, but they at least are still interesting and choices for playstyle approaches.

I have so many more suggestions, if Blizz devs really desire to know they can just keep posting about Warlocks and I'll keep giving them ideas (that are not simply the same old unprune X comments that while would be working solutions are not forward moving either).

(Yatogami) #1593
Fell off page 1

(Xoja) #1594
Just going to reiterate my thoughts on UA stacking because I want to hammer it home.

It works in PVE. UA stacking is a valid rotation. No one is disputing that. It may not be the most fun or engaging thing, but it works. But I don't really understand the burst argument and why UA is the only option for that. Haunt was a direct damage spender in MoP, and our DoTs also benefited from it. I... just don't see what was wrong with that. Did it really need to be changed? Or was it changed just 'cuz? Haunt was fine for burst and it gave us snap damage for low health mobs/quick fights.

In PVP, it doesn't feel good mechanically. Our pressure traditionally comes from being able to maintain uptime on DoTs on multiple targets and take advantage of spread pressure. Finding windows to cast multiple UAs isn't as fun as it sounds and in a lot of situations we are dead before the pressure even gets started, even if we try our hardest just to survive.

There are also no talents that improve the quality of life of UA. It's our spender!! Endless Affliction is still unchanged, which is a real puzzler... I'd be curious to see the statistics on how often that talent is actually used. Soul Conduit is completely dead - there's just no reason to take it, and we're even getting an Azerite trait that is a similar but better version of Soul Conduit. I suppose there is Rot and Decay but who has room for that nowadays with only 3 honor talent slots, 1 of which will be dedicated to Demon Armor coming up.

Personally I think Affliction could be built in a way that doesn't even need building and spending mechanics for damage (just to point out that Soul Shards used to be used for utility) but obviously those are here to stay. Pretty much every DPS spec has building and spending now.

(Delofasht) #1595
Well put regarding UA. If they want to keep it, then I reiterate my previous comments regarding making it a shard dump, being a one button press similar to Hand of Guldan mixed with Agony stacking in a way (additional casts on the target extend duration and increase stack number). Such design would encourage multidotting and upkeep, where getting many high stacked UAs out on multiple targets and keeping them up would result in higher damage, while on a single target it would be less but strong. Duration would need to be baseline long enough to demand upkeep, but just short enough to be difficult to maintain on more than three targets. That would be for PvE, while in PvP it would provide on demand burst windows that can sync up without massive ramp time which casters simply do not get in PvP environments.

This is ultimately just a small mechanical change though, as the added globals worth of time do not drastically change the way we play the class. Damage tuning would need to be addressed given the change, but that really isn’t anything new. I would be fine being less incredible on single target if we were better balanced for many situations (AoE, multitarget, and priority add killing).

(Chromey) #1596
Give me mobile Shadow Bolt so I can have fun with Warlock like in MOP and raid mechanics don't tank my dps.
Thanks.
Easy.

(Konjunktur) #1597
Naturally a number of things needs to happen with Affliction (PvP related). For example:
1. Fear durations needs to be increased to 8 seconds.
2. Portal needs to be baselined (replaced by Howl of Terror, 8 seconds as well).
3. UA shouldn't stack - Haunt should be the way an Affliction Lock bursts (also Aff Lock burst shouldn't be too big, they're not supposed to be a bursting spec).
4. Curse of Exhaustion & Curse of Weakness & Curse of Enfeeblement need to be baselined. (Remove new PvP talent curses)
5. Soul Link needs to be re-implemented.
6. Pet Summoning cast time needs to be increased dramatically.
7. Fel Flame needs to be re-implemented (baseline).
8. Shadowflame (glyphed version) needs to be re-implemented (baseline).
9. Unending Resolve needs to not grant immunity.
10. Nether Ward needs to be removed.
11. UA needs increased dispel protection (large damage increase on the dispel effect).
12. Soul Swap (MoP or Cata version) could be made into a PvP talent.

Basically - Warlocks need to function autonomously, without a healer, as well. Additionally CC needs to make a big comeback in this game. Facing an aff lock (team) who wins just by rotting you down with barely any CC is just boring and is fairly skill-less and almost impossible to counter (which makes balancing a nightmare because either they do enough damage to win at which point the opposition can't counter it or they don't - at which point aff lock comps are useless). However, if that aff lock team needs to utilize CC well in order to get good results then all of a sudden the game is fun because it makes things outplayable (for both parties). Furthermore, these changes would make Affliction Warlock fun to play for Affliction Warlocks - unlike what we have today.

Stop this "we want to work on classes strengths instead of their weaknesses" nonsense - classes need to be strong and have tools to deal with things instead of having a lingering feeling of "welp, I guess I just can't deal with this in any way possible".

(Delofasht) #1598
The points regarding crowd control and self peel recently bring to light a very relevant issue in design actually. Almost all of the abilities in the game happen to be targeted, and this is a big problem for CC and mobility because when they are the power of them is incredibly high. They are strong effects that when are very reliable create situations in which one player never feels like they have a chance to respond to a series of events. A few other games learned this and started making CC and mobility very telegraphed.

Telegraphing abilities means more flight times, wind up animations, and indicators that allow players to see an effect coming and prepare for it. Slows become stronger because they increase the chance to line up such skills, and all the good stuff we see in competitive PvP games begin to become attainable. The groundwork for telegraphed abilities has already been laid with all the work done with vehicle abilities in Legion.

The tech is already here, the classes already plenty barren enough, just start switching over the targeted CC and instant mobility to have very telegraphed effects and subtle delays. Some abilities can stay instant, like flavorful ones like Charge/Intercept, Fel Rush, and disengage effects. If the rest were all like Warlock mobility though, then the game would be much more interesting.

In years long since gone this stuff was not implemented because internet connections were slow and data transfer rates too sluggish to get these very reactive styles of gameplay to happen quickly enough, but now we have very fast internet. There is simply no better time to do this kind of thing. So many castbars could be removed by doing this. Really strong abilities can have a nice decent wind up animation that can be seen by other players and responded to. In fact, it opens the door to player interactions in PvE against enemy targets as well (oh we can see the Warlock is winding up a Shadowfury, and the tank starts a quick reposition or enemies into the radius, boom stunned for 5 seconds and lined up for the next set of CC great timing of abilities and movement!!). Just saying, this kind of stuff has potential, game is already in a bad place according to many, gotta try new stuff anyhow, what better time than now?

(Ramrodjones) #1599
bump

(Xoja) #1600
Heads up, tomorrow they are doing a forum migration. So this thread and others might be read-only and not moved over to the new forums.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/breaking/22764995

It says two-week or less-old threads will be moved but I hope they consider active class feedback threads important enough to move as well.

If not, we can definitely continue the discussion once the new forum is up. Though I will say that until we see Affliction updates the discussion will be an echo chamber because the necessary points have been brought up and debated to death.