Adjustments to Herbalism and Elemental Crafting Materials

I cannot stress this enough. I’m not looking for a big shakeup on who does the main sources of damage but I would REALLY like to know that -1 warrior or -1 rogue in the comp is worth it for +1 feral or +1 boomer.

There are a lot of ways to achieve this but it must be a combination of itemization and tweaking abilities. The way that the lotus change resembles the way TBC improved, I think the Faerie fire and crit aura changes also were good improvements from classic to TBC so those would be good changes to mimic. Here are some thoughts for various memers:

Make tigers fury for feral last longer and persist between shape shifts so that it is a meaningful part of the rotation instead of a practically insignificant edge case usage. Increase the crit aura to 5% and make some items like finkles give feral AP.

Give them a melee ability that regens mana increases their spell power for 20 seconds. Give them 3% hit from FF and increase the aura to 5%

Give the 3% crit from crusader judgement, crusader strike to refresh judgements and improve the rotation.

Enhance: triple the stormstrike stacks and give a group buff like unleashed fury. Also something to reduce threat.

Wrath totem and an ability that makes a portion of their nature damage convert to heals on the lowest friendly near the target. Maybe make that healing do no threat

The tbc dot should be added to improve mana efficiency and group utility. Something also to improve their threat dropping. Maybe psychic scream could also dump threat idk.

I wouldn’t make their niche into insane aoe like tbc because there is none on horde but I’d give a healing related benefit to having them on the target like consecration heals friendlies (improving threat output as well).
I’d try to think of something else that helps improve their viability some as well. Something that gives them value even when they aren’t the target of the enemy. Maybe their ret aura also increases healing taken or something like that.

I feel like it’s super important to do something about the state of the specs. I think the original design intentions were closer to TBC but there was less data to base tuning decisions on back in the original days. Increasing the dynamic nature of the various specs will greatly add to the same notion of the changes like increasing raid difficulty because their should be a puzzle involved in the raid composition where some class abilities matter more in some mechanics but all specs are still valued all the time at least to the point where they shouldn’t be totally erased from the end game. I hate the thought of getting to 60 on a druid with 4 super interesting specs and then being completely pigeon holed into healing or (less often) tanking. Even rogues it would be great to see some strength in their assassination tree like maybe imp expose armor being deeper in the tree and then something related to utility in their as well like nature vulnerability from one of their poisons to improve ele/moonkin damage.

These are some suitable ideas but I don’t care what they are as long as these specs aren’t erased for being too suboptimal. When classic started lots of people said hey you can be enhance or you can make it work as a booking if you put in extra effort but the truth was that rarely was acceptable. With the increase of difficulty people will be even more likely to exclude you if you are not an optimal spec. You could look at the removal of world buffs as evening the playing field because warriors and rogues scaled better with those than memers, but with the increase in fight length and no changes to the specs, the mana issues that meme specs have will widen that gap even more than with world buffs.


in context of raids, you need to realize the new raid mechanics nerfed melee, and nerfed memes even more. you’re just going to stack mage, lock, 3 hunters for tranq.


I think you would be surprised by how much standard mmo gameplay was involved. Finding a good right strategy with tools available, coordinating with other players, and being dedicated to a goal.

People assume a lot of shady stuff (accounts filled with lvl 1s and botting) was happening, ultimately this wasn’t really how it was done.

I think the part that people can rally against is that 90%+ of the players involved were not there to play the game in the standard way, but were the dedicated shift working, account sharing gold sellers that everyone complains about.

Make no mistake, they actually played the game (not bots), but definitely not for the same reason the typical player plays the game.

I was in silithus most of the time (outside of p5) being the only US player on the /who list of 15-20 mage and hunter foreign farmers.

None of this has changed, these zones will still be under the control of these dedicated farmers. Hopefully enough high level herbs will exist outside of the 4 Black Lotus zones to allow for meaningful change to the status quo. The potential for Dire Maul to have lotus containing herbs would have a huge impact.

Sir, this is a Wendy’s


This was for MC and Ony.
From my understanding and since no raid testing has happened, they didn’t adjust the other raids. So this would be more so true for the short term, but not long term SoM (as long as long can be in 12 months, haha).

A great step in the right direction on BL. At least bot campers won’t be able to dominate the market for Black Lotus.

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Great job on this change. Still wanting class balances but I am very happy with what the game is becoming.


This is possibly one of the best changes so far! That and the raid mechanics changes are putting me at full mast.

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Thank you!

too bad NO ONE HAS herbalism to test this

OMG thank you so much. These changes are huge!!!

I have max herbalism…leveled it up…glad to test this…:slight_smile:

I could see some increase in mages/locks but I will be very surprised if either of those contend with rogues (especially with darkmantle and with a viskag or perds). But yes your point about memes being nerfed harder, I totally agree and this is a big concern of mine.


OMG you take the words out of my brain. I had a very similar experience as you and went on a very lonely crusade against these players. I can confirm what you are saying about the shift workers because I was somewhat friendly with a few players that were part of a ring of lotus farmers (all from the same foreign country). I confirmed that they were doing RMT because one of them was well known in GDKPs for that and one of them offered me his discord info when I went undercover and solicited info about his lotus price with USD.

But what you’re describing about the hunters/mages locking down a zone isn’t nearly as egregious as the times that 1 player would control 9-10 rogues on both factions and stay on each spawn for a dozen hours at a time. I would go around on my rogue and slay them as much as I could but it was a drop in the bucket effort to slow them down. I am also very concerned about how this will shape up and I think the changes announced in this thread will help a lot but I fear that ultimately the organized RMTers will still have a major impact as it currently stands. They will farm the majority of the lotus and they will set prices/corner the market because they are very coordinated.

I get torn between wanting to organize better efforts to just fight back against them with the pvp system and just not wanting to play because of the damage they’ve done. Lots of players that I knew made it to 60 and then encountered the GDKP scene and were immediately turned off by the entire game and I place a lot of the blame on the RMT for that. When one person goes into the raid and outbids everyone on the gear it sounds like a win because they distribute their gold to the people running, but if you run the calculations and see you gotta run MC and make ~250g each time until you can pay for 3k for a perditions blade, it doesn’t stack up against their experience of just being in a normal raiding environment and you can tell that only the credit card swipers end up with the gear. I get that people would use GDKP to earn side cash while they geared in their main raid, but a lot of players hit 60 and quit because of this environment and even if you avoid the GDKP scene, the GDKP scene does not avoid you when you queue up for a BG and your gear is way worse than your opponents. It just taints everything in my opinion.

Come vote!

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lets get a simple poll on who’s going where so we can choose a Server

The changes to make plaguebloom, black lotus, and the elemental materials more available are now live on Beta realms.


Thank you for the update!

i hope the one guy who leveled herbing up to 300 testes it since you know NONE OF THE PREMADE can

Found my first Black Lotus from the 29th Plaguebloom and the second from the 57th

Elemental Fire from Sungrass
Elemental Earth from Liferoot and Goldthorn
Elemental Water from Arthas’ Tears

There may be more and I haven’t tested mining nodes

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mining doesn’t give anything other than one ore so if that’s true about the Elementals everyone will be rolling herbalism