Adaptive Swarm

Im sorry blizzard but i shouldn’t have to go to Necrolord to be able to play a bleed build. The state of feral is so silly, In PvP its recommended that i straight up do not bleed a target, and instead just dump it into Bite… What happened to our whole Bleed playstyle?? a Melee Warlock was the best comparison. Come on blizzard, Stop this stupid stuff and buff our bleeds by a god damn solid amount, here ill give you a suggestion… 150%.

3 Likes

You don’t have to go Necrolord to play a bleed style. It just completely compliments it.

You can choose talents and legendaries that also compliment a bleed style spec. Just because it’s not in the guides because it’s not the top damage via min/maxer theory crafters, doesn’t mean it’s not doable.

I don’t think you understand how numbers work…20% would be plenty. 150% is just ignorant. Nothing personal, just a bit asinine

2 Likes

the 150% was supposed to be overkill lol, And what i mean really is there shouldnt BE a Bleed Build like there is now, Bleeds were how druids were meant to be, Bleed still need to be addressed since Adaptive can be dispelled, making it less valuable.

In other words, Things like bloodtalons and the bleed legendary & Adaptive should be buffs that we can choose to add to our (what should already be) strong bleeds, Instead PVE and PvP both revolve around Bites.

Just buffing our bleeds would simply make us OP, and probably the strongest thing in M+ due to the fact that PW is uncapped.

And while that might be fun for a little while, the nerf bat that would follow it would be heinous. Feral is not one of Bliz’s protected specs, unlike Balance.

The issue is more of the damage ratio of bite vs everything else. The easiest lever to pull would simply be to adjust mastery to have more of an effect on bleed damage, and less on finishers.

1 Like

The 8.1 rework really took a lot of the fun out of the class. They should’ve just swapped PW in for BrS on our tree and rebalanced haste instead of reorienting the entire playstyle around Bite.

I wouldn’t really say it’s an issue. It’s how most of the builder/spender specs work. Builders add up, but don’t seem impressive compared to finisher moves.

Sin Rogues: Envenom
SPriests: Void Bolt (now devouring plague)
Enhance Shamans: Frost Shock
Destro Locks: Chaos Bolt
Ferals: Ferocious Bite

All the damage ratios are about even. I think what the issue is, is the ramp-up time. While some classes have the instant damage in their builders (enhance / Sin), others take time for the full damage to be counted (Feral/Shadow).

And I think that’s reflected in raids with the longer fights where their abilities have the time to do it’s full damage as opposed to the most bursty style play

honestly 150% isnt that overkill, rake bleeds for 650 without any amplifiers and rip bleeds for close to 600 none crit and im 226 ilvl with 33% mastery. Increasing that by 150% and youll get 1625 and 1500 a tic, honestly 150% seems to be solid ofcourse we would need a nerf to the sabertooth talent or ferocious bite in general by atleast 25-35% but a 25% nerf to bite isnt even that big with some people able to land 20K or higher bites, I died to a 18k bite the other day and im 31% vers.
I support bleed damage coming back tho

2 Likes

It is though

Numbers are wrong/skewed/or made up. Even with the 60% bonus to stealth applying to rakes bleed, Rip still does more damage.

But let’s take your numbers anyway. Now let’s apply them using Circle

1625 * 1.25 = 2031
1600 * 1.25 * 1.3 = 2600

4631 * 1.2 (AS) = 5557 per tick. That’s what, every 2 seconds?

At 40k health, that’s 14% of someone’s entire health pool. Per tick. And that’s no other pressure or damage coming in. 28% in 2 ticks. That’s no TF, no Shred/BrS to build combos, no berserk, no white damage, no outside sources (partners or otherwise)

You could nerf Sabertooth all you want. Hell you could get rid of it. You don’t even Ferocious Bite at this point. Rake stun, Bash, Maim. They’re dead. Even if they did Trinket one of the stuns, there’s no way they’re going to live through it.

So yeah, 150% is overkill. Need to think about the implications of it. It would be a great BG meme though. 2 Ferals decimating 10 man groups consisting of 2 healers and 8 DPS by alternating Rake stuns on the healers with restealthing via Incarn/Shadowmeld.

Not unique to Feral. All big Spenders are able to break 20k damage. And some a lot easier than Feral too.

And your Vers is probably canceled out against their vers, so can’t really use that as a gauging point either.

As do I. But in a sensible way

not sure what you’re on about i just hit the training dummy in SW with a full rip and rake and those were the numbers appearing in my dps meter and if 2600 per 1.3 sec and 5500 per tic with everything popped isnt even that amazing in comparison to a ww, its good dmg really good but theres lot of dwarfs, kyrian pots and the dmg is dot based so a lot easier to acknowledge and respond to

4 Likes

Just saying that on average, so Crit aside, rip will tick for more than rake

Now you’re comparing apples to oranges. The Druids bleeds aww found to continue to do 14% of your health pool even if you break away. You break away from a WW, and you’ve got nothing to worry about because nothing is ticking away at you.

Yes and no. Yes because I’m
Not denying anything you’re saying those are solid points. But no, because not everyone is a dwarf, not everyone is a Kyrian, and not everyone has a pocket healer/endless heals to deal with the damage.

Being able to react to that damage would be a lot easier on a 1 on 1 situation. But 15% of your health pool, every 2 seconds, did 15 seconds is a lot of pressure for you and your teammates to deal with. Especially if no one has a chance to break away to deal with it.

And that’s not burst damage. That just consistent pressure on top of having the Feral in your face.

I’m all for bleed damage being more meaningful. Mastery affecting It is a step in the right direction. Now it just needs a little more of a push.

With conduits, talents, legendaries, I think a 20-25% increase to bleed damage would suffice

Being able to react to that damage would be a lot easier on a 1 on 1 situation. But 15% of your health pool, every 2 seconds, did 15 seconds is a lot of pressure for you and your teammates to deal with. Especially if no one has a chance to break away to deal with it.

15% of your hp every 1.3 with full cds and tigers fury only lasting 10 seconds so the would hardly stay around verylong, meanwhile a ww monk, ret,mage, rogue can 100-0 in 1-3 globals

1 Like

Are you wanting to talk burst or are you wanting to talk Bleed damage.

15% every 1.3 seconds is running in the background. That’s not the full pressure, that’s not the full damage.

You break away from a Warrior, he’s not going to continue to do 15% damage every tick while being kited.

You break away from a Ret, he’s not going to continue to deal 15% every tick

Nor is the rogue (how much does a rogue do? I haven’t played Sub in awhile)

And neither is the WW.

You break away from a feral, and you’re still getting chunked for 15% every tick. And you can’t stop to deal with it or the Feral will be right back on you dealing that 15% every tick plus whatever he’s doing to you inside those globals while being on you.

The amount of pressure that would come from boosting bleeds by 150% is what I’m talking about. The burst potential also goes up, but as with any DoT, it’s running in the background and gives you time to react. If you can break away to react.

Again, if you break away from any of the other melee, you’re relatively safe. You break away from a Feral, you’re dead in 4-5 ticks. And that’s without any other damage.

Warriors have infinite charges with condemn, rets and we can kill in a stun unless you have a response to it, bleed need setup and a decent player can see the full bleeds and on-top of trinket and feral frenzy they have a small window to just cc you and avoid the follow up bites to the bleeds, meanwhile rets/we/fmage can kill from 100-0 in 2 Global’s. Sorry you aren’t changing my mind on this, I’m a necrolord pure bleed feral so I know what i have experienced in arena matches and these are the things that happen, it’s just a affliction warlock, you see them spamming malefic rupture you line them or respond to it with cc or a defensive, ferals do have stuns yes but again a decent player can acknowledge they are full bleed and a potential kill target to all of your CDs, it happens to me in arena all the time

1 Like

And what are you doing to stop the DoTs from ticking away on you? Nothing. There’s nothing you can do about it. That’s what I’m trying to get at.

You can run away, you can stun, you can LoS, but you’re still taking damage.

That’s the constant pressure from bleeds from a Feral. But on top of that pressure, you’re able to throw out Shreds/BrS/Bites/CC. All the while they’re taking fatal damage from your overpowered bleeds (assuming the 150% revamp you’re wanting).

This has nothing to do about how many globals you can kill someone in. I’m talking strictly about bleed damage

Again, that’s with max damage that lasts 10 seconds, so 8 tics max and in a PvP environment you won’t ever have a perfect situation to get all your dots rolling between rake, rip, adaptive swarm, feral frenzy, moonfire, trinket/tigerfury, they have all those Global’s to respond to the dmg and once trinket and tigers fury is down which again is 10 seconds long they go back to dealing 2600 every 1.3 seconds

I’m not trying to shut you down on your opinion but I’m the guy who climbed rating with pure bleed feral so I know how much of a struggle it is to get all this damage rolling, it’s a extremely rare situation where you can get everything up at full duration while your partners are able to work around you and are ready to do things once your dots are rolling, furthermore I don’t think people would have an issue loosing to a feral they let free cast on them and allowed then to ramp their damage and get full value out of bleeds which again can be easily stopped and countered (which I have experience multiple times in my hundreds of arena matches as necrolord feral) but if you go to arena forums you’ll see a large group of people daily discussing how broken/random/braindead convoke is and I agree convoke shouldn’t be in the game, it rewards bad players who get lucky

1 Like

Feral snapshots. So max damage runs for 15 seconds minimum.

And that’s just 2 abilities. You don’t need to get everything rolling to be dealing 15% per tick. It’s a Rake/Shred/Rip/AS/ kite and GG (so 3 I guess with AS - is that off the GCD? I can’t remember)

Imagine if Corruption and Agony alone did 15% every tick. Just those two. That doesn’t involve Drain Life, or UR, or Shadowbolt or any of their other things and stuffs. Would be a bit much.

That’s not how Snapshotting works :slight_smile: the trinket perhaps runs a dynamic, but not TF.

And I can appreciate that. But with your suggested change of 150% to bleed damage, you wouldn’t need to get all things rolling. Just Rake and Rip. And that alone is fatal damage. You still have all your other instant damage abilities on top of that to consider too.

You may want to look up what snapshots, because you clearly don’t know.

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/how-to-improve-feral-druid#tigers-fury-usage

Just double checked, and I’m right. Rake and Rip both take advantage of snapshotting under the effects of TF

Of course they snapshot, but WHAT you said works with snapshot is wrong. ZZZZZZZ