About the NE (possible) 8:1 Kill Ratio in the WoT

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

@Kyalin-cenarion-circle

Not because it’s a problem for the Alliance to initiate conflict, I argue they should. The issue is in destroying the locus of investment for an entire playable race, and creating a presentation that defines that playable race as useless,

TWO playable races. The Forsaken players as well as Horde players in general after all lost Undercity AND Brill. And on Earthen Ring, those were more active in the RP community than Darnassus ever was.

[Grabbag-barthilas]

@Kyalin-cenarion-circle

That took me less than a minute to find. The rivalry is very much there, and we need a real reply to it.

You’ve taken me just a touch out of context there. I didn’t enjoy Teldrassil or thought it was a good story line. However if you’re going to claim Malfurion was a “god” who “destroyed the Horde” I think it’s perfectly reasonable to remind the person who says that that he was in fact on the losing side of that campaign.

[Kyalin-cenarion-circle (Kyalin)]

Seems like an odd way to do so, but thank you for the clarification.

@Drahliana-earthen-ring

TWO playable races.

I love how you snipped my comment at the comma to try and make this claim. Let’s take a look at the whole thing, shall we?

@Kyalin-cenarion-circle

Not because it’s a problem for the Alliance to initiate conflict, I argue they should. The issue is in destroying the locus of investment for an entire playable race, and creating a presentation that defines that playable race as useless, and that’s just when we go to talk about Night Elves. There is a crater where Forsaken identity used to be, and that they are in limbo is well is not good for the game.

Destroying capitals was a bad idea, and under no circumstances, conditional or not, should it be defended.

[Grabbag-barthilas]

@Kyalin-cenarion-circle

Seems like an odd way to do so

It’s odd to post a picture of Teldrassil burning to remind someone that the Alliance lost the war of the thorns?

[Kyalin-cenarion-circle (Kyalin)]

Odd to post it but then assert that it’s not an “in your face” rivalry thing. I cited your post as an example of trash talking in service of a point that post Teldrassil, Horde fans have a lot more room to do that than we do given that we’ve got very little to trash talk about.

[Frankenfiend-the-scryers]

@Kyalin-cenarion-circle

I think you’ve pretty firmly failed in the task that I’ve given you here.

It was not a fair task to ask someone who has always thought that Night Elves suck to explain how they don’t.

If you aren’t invested in the game and have not been for eleven years, quit.

[Pellex-hyjal (Pellex)]

@Amadis-draka

Someone made a ghost ships at the Stormwind docks “screenshot” back during BfA, too.

Oooh, I remember that! It was good enough that some knowledgeable people thought it might be real, too. I was actually a little disappointed that it didn’t pan out, as it looked cool.

[Kyalin-cenarion-circle (Kyalin)]

@Frankenfiend-the-scryers

who has always thought that Night Elves suck

Wrong.

The task is impossible due to the years of bad content that you’re defending, which was my point.

So maybe instead of stonewalling me or claiming that nIgHt ElF fAnS cAn NeVeR bE sAtIsFiEd - even though we’ve been telling you what the problems have been for years - you should consider ways for this problem to be fixed.

[Vuldezi-wyrmrest-accord]

Oh please, can we not litigate the “devastating win” thing in yet another thread?

In almost any thread you look now, simply asserting that a race was gathered up, and killed en masse via genocide is enough to be gatekept by the Horde.

[Beladah-thorium-brotherhood]

@Ethriel-elune

Does it matter when in the end, the kill ratio was something like 100:1 favouring the Horde?

What’s your source on that ratio?

[Frankenfiend-the-scryers]

@Kyalin-cenarion-circle

Wrong.

How can I be wrong about my own opinion? I have never thought Night Elves were cool. They suck. I’ve always thought they sucked. I don’t get what you like about them - especially since you’ve apparently been complaining about them for over a decade.

@Kyalin-cenarion-circle

The task is impossible due to the years of bad content that you’re defending, which was my point.

I’m not defending Jack. If you don’t like the content don’t play the game - easy as that.

@Kyalin-cenarion-circle

So maybe instead of stonewalling me or claiming that nIgHt ElF fAnS cAn NeVeR bE sAtIsFiEd - even though we’ve been telling you what the problems have been for years - you should consider ways for this problem to be fixed.

Well, 1.) I never said Night Elf fans can never be satisfied.

And 2.) If you have been telling Blizz your problems for years and they haven’t responded to them, maybe they don’t see the things you are seeing as problems.

And finally 3.) I don’t need to consider a way to fix your problems for you. They are not my problems, they are your problems. You figure it out.

[Kyalin-cenarion-circle (Kyalin)]

@Frankenfiend-the-scryers

I’m not defending Jack. If you don’t like the content don’t play the game - easy as that.

I’m providing this feedback because I want the game to be better, and I want it to become enjoyable again. Your response to myself and other Night Elf fans has been to try to deny that there are problems and to block solutions.

It doesn’t matter to me if you don’t like Night Elves. You aren’t the only one playing this game, and it should not be catered solely to you. An MMO has the capability of making it fun for everyone - and the complaints are here because the Night Elf situation is not fun.

So if you are going to comment on the Night Elves, then you need to do one of the following:

a. Demonstrate why we’re wrong and why it is fun (which you have demonstrably failed to do), or
b. Discuss the viability of proposed solutions within the overall context of the game (something you’re not doing), or
c. Propose suggestions of your own (something that you’re also not doing)

Popping up in threads and sniping at people for being upset, or trying to deny that there’s a problem at all when we’ve just agreed that this situation is not fun is not productive.

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

@Beladah-thorium-brotherhood

@Ethriel-elune

Does it matter when in the end, the kill ratio was something like 100:1 favouring the Horde?

What’s your source on that ratio?

They’re counting all the deaths on Teldrassil, including those in the towns that unlike Darnassus had no evacuation as well as all of the firbolgs, hyppogryphs, and Harpies, no doubt.

[Beladah-thorium-brotherhood]

[quote=“Drahliana-earthen-ring, post:133, topic:970277, full:true”]

@Beladah-thorium-brotherhood

@Ethriel-elune

Does it matter when in the end, the kill ratio was something like 100:1 favouring the Horde?
[/quote]

What’s your source on that ratio?

They’re counting all the deaths on Teldrassil, including those in the towns that unlike Darnassus had no evacuation as well as all of the firbolgs, hyppogryphs, and Harpies, no doubt.

So where’s your source on that ratio?

[Pellex-hyjal (Pellex)]

@Drahliana-earthen-ring

They’re counting all the deaths on Teldrassil, including those in the towns that unlike Darnassus had no evacuation

Side point: I was just looking through Elegy for this thread, and I noticed that Malfurion called for all of the area as far out as Darkshore to be evacuated. So that should include all the villages on Teldrassil itself.

(Of course, Elegy also says that teleportation doesn’t work to transport an army, despite the fact that the Alliance have a mage on their side who has canonically done just that…)

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

@Pellex-hyjal

Of course, Elegy also says that teleportation doesn’t work to transport an army, despite the fact that the Alliance have a mage on their side who has canonically done just that…

A mage. as in singular who apparantly wasn’t around for Teldrassil. I’m not sure who you’re referring to since that not even Jaina has shown that… closest thing I recall to such a feat was Alleria bringing in reinforcements via Void Portals.

[Pellex-hyjal (Pellex)]

@Drahliana-earthen-ring

not even Jaina has shown that

She did in WotLK at the Battle for the Undercity, I’m told. (Never got a chance to do that in-game.)

Question about the Jaina raid encounter

[Treefolk-elune]

Even with those portals that we had, instead of teleporting civilians Alliance could teleport soldiers. According to the books, evacuated civilians count was pretty big. Instead, that amount of soldiers could help Delaryn to defend Ashenvale, until Night Elves army fully return.

But anyway, there is no point to search a logic here. Teldrassil burned down just because plot demand. Just like with Worgens. What was the point to evacuate every Gilneas soldier to Stormwind instead of sending them to the front? Just to return back to the front after Teldrassil, in next patch?
And why Night Elves decided to evacuate civilians to Stormwind, instead of Exodar, or Nordrassil?
Why Night Elves did not try to swim away from Teldrassil? There was a fleet in the sea that could take them from the water…
Why druids did not summon the rain to fight against the fire? Summoning the rain is one of the main core druids ability…

[Micâh-moon-guard]

She teleported a handful of soldiers, plus Varian and herself. That hardly qualifies as a army worth of soldiers.

[Pellex-hyjal (Pellex)]

Like I said, I didn’t do the event in-game. But it was certainly more than two or three at a time, right? Which is all portals can handle according to Elegy.

ETA: She is also seen to teleport all the Alliance troops in the Hyjal raid. It’s about a dozen units onscreen, which are almost certainly meant to be stand-ins for a larger force.